CJCS responds to Rep. Gaetz

[Treetop Flyer]

"We suppressed your culture and stole all your land and resources, but this is for your own good."

Does nothing to defend your indefensible statement

 

[nodropinufaka]

Does nothing to defend your indefensible statement

It’s indefensible as an absolute statement. Just as the statement that the colonizers weren’t being malicious is.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Are you joking?

I'm certain there was zero thought to the indigenous cultures well being.

Glad to know someone who was alive when this all happened has defied death to tell us positively what happened.

The Renaissance was in 1970s and today is very different now with an embrace of their culture.

Thanks for proving my points. After 50 years things changed and Hawaiiand no longer experience the discrimination of the past.

Well except that there is still discrimination in Hawaii through Bishop Estate and their various sub units like Kamehameha Schools. But that is discriminating against those fucking haoles so it’s okay to the Hawaiians….

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Colonization was malicious in general, yes. Weaker civilizations being subjugated by stronger ones is a tale as old as time. It doesn’t excuse what happened but it’s ludicrous to say no one cared about the people there. Once the deal was done, it was probably a good idea to learn English, wear pants, and assimilate to some degree.

 

[nodropinufaka]

Glad to know someone who was alive when this all happened has defied death to tell us positively what happened.


Thanks for proving my points. After 50 years things changed and Hawaiiand no longer experience the discrimination of the past.

Well except that there is still discrimination in Hawaii through Bishop Estate and their various sub units like Kamehameha Schools. But that is discriminating against those fucking haoles so it’s okay to the Hawaiians….

I don’t find Kamehameha to be a problem.

The estate was setup before Hawaii was overthrown.

it was their money and their estate and the land and nation was stolen.

let them have their education.

 

[Jim123]

I'm certain there was zero thought to the indigenous cultures well being.

Reread precisely what he wrote:

And in most cases it was done out of an interest in the future well being of the natives. It was well meaning.

Nowadays most schools of thought believe that the way natives were assimilated into Euro cultures was done clumsily and resulted in a lot of unexpected and terrible consequences, but historically the rationale went something like:

• conquered cultures, by virtue of having lost to the foreigners, means their way of life must be inferior
• if the conquered people hadn't lost then that would mean their culture would be equal; if the conquered peopled had "discovered" Europe first then that would have meant their culture was the superior one
• saving the people is a morally correct thing to do (conversely, abandoning them would be immoral)
• bringing them into the "modern" world is arguably a moral imperative
• the question of throwing away or keeping an "inferior" culture is a different question than throwing away or keeping the people of that culture

History isn't pretty but it's pretty easy to understand the Euros' perspective when they found civilizations that were apparently centuries "behind" their own (apparent in their own way of thinking). I underlined the last thing for emphasis. There was zero thought to the cultures' well being but however arrogant, ignorant, or ugly it was there was every thought to the people's well being.

 

[HAL Pilot]

It’s indefensible as an absolute statement. Just as the statement that the colonizers weren’t being malicious is.

Fucking Genghis Khan, Attila the Hum, Romans, Vikings, etc all those thousands of years ago. They sure cause grief for today’s minorities….

 

[WhiskeySierra6]

@SELRES_AMDO or @nodropinufaka I know a lot of people are throwing a lot of posts at you and you're under no obligation to but just curious if you have answers to the questions posed in post #783 regarding objective recommendations or processes that can be applied in reality or if @nodropinufaka is still confused about the definition of "discriminator"?

 

[scoolbubba]

Fucking Genghis Khan, Attila the Hum, Romans, Vikings, etc all those thousands of years ago. They sure cause grief for today’s minorities….

Ghenghis is related to 2% of today's population on account of all the raping he did.

Mongolia better pay up.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I don’t find Kamehameha to be a problem.

The estate was setup before Hawaii was overthrown.

it was their money and their estate and the land and nation was stolen.

let them have their education.

So you admit being a hypocrite. You think discrimination is okay as long as it is discrimination against another race or culture other than your own, and as long as it based on history.

By your statement you must think that if there was still slavery in the U. S. it would be okay because it was setup before when the U. S. a country.

(Edit: You never mention that the Bishop Estate was established by one of those nefarious white people that @SELRES_AMDO thinks only acted to surpress the natives.)

 

[HAL Pilot]

Ghenghis is related to 2% of today's population on account of all the raping he did.

Mongolia better pay up.

Fucking A! I want my reparations!

 

[Treetop Flyer]

So you admit being a hypocrite. You think discrimination is okay as long as it is discrimination against another race or culture than your own, and as long as it based on history.

By your statement you must think that if there was still slavery in the U. S., it would be okay because it was setup before when the U. S. a country.

Maybe not slavery as an analogy but a school system only for whites probably wouldn’t go over well either

 

[nodropinufaka]

So you admit being a hypocrite. You think discrimination is okay as long as it is discrimination against another race or culture other than your own, and as long as it based on history.

By your statement you must think that if there was still slavery in the U. S., it would be okay because it was setup before when the U. S. a country.

So are the all boy schools in hawaii against the rules?

 

[wink]

"We suppressed your culture and stole all your land and resources, but this is for your own good."

Aside from the fact that no one ever said anything like that, that is pretty much what some colonist thought. The "white man's burden" was just that. Although the foundation was a racist view of the native society and culture, some colonist and most missionaries myopically and conceitedly viewed their actions as beneficial to the indigenous peoples. It was their duty to manage the affairs of the colonized to include, in the Anglo/American version at least, education so the indigenous could take over their own management in the colonist's or missionary's image and function in a modern western society. Today, we rightly see that differently. But it doesn't change how many people viewed the mission at the time. [edit: @Jim123 said it better]

 

[nodropinufaka]

@SELRES_AMDO or @nodropinufaka I know a lot of people are throwing a lot of posts at you and you're under no obligation to but just curious if you have answers to the questions posed in post #783 regarding objective recommendations or processes that can be applied in reality or if @nodropinufaka is still confused about the definition of "discriminator"?

Just read.

Im not sure.

But women, peace, and security is currently a huge undertaking by OSD Policy.

OSD finds value in having females in senior ranks in order to conduct security cooperation.

So if an organization decides they want to maintain diversity in order to help achieve their objectives is it wrong?