Deployment video causing heat for Enterprise Skipper

[PropAddict]

Can I quote Col. Kurtz, or is that reserved for A4s?

"We train young men to drop fire on people, but their commanders won’t allow them to write “fuck” on their airplanes because it’s obscene!”

I find that quote relevant to this situation.

 

[P3 F0]

Professor Fleming rides again...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy.../01/06/AR2011010604874.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Actually, this is absolutely the best commentary I've seen on the matter.

That is a great piece. Would have been even better had he addressed the issue of top brass moving someone up and then hammering them well after the fact for one of the things that probably (tangentially, at least) helped him move up. Although I suppose that really needs its own dedicated piece.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Professor Fleming rides again...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy.../01/06/AR2011010604874.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Actually, this is absolutely the best commentary I've seen on the matter.

Yep. First time I've ever actually found myself agreeing with Prof Fleming.

(For those who found it TL;DR: the gist is, Prof Fleming doesn't agree with what CAPT Honors did, but admires him for at least trying to address shipboard problems and issues with his sailors in a way they'll relate to, instead of the standard Navy solution of denying there's any problems and then blaming a few malcontents. Furthermore, it's a fucking warship, not Dunder-Mifflin)

 

[feddoc]

Looks like some of the gays don't think it is such a big deal.

http://ebird.osd.mil/ebfiles/e20110110799381.html

 

[das]

Looks like some of the gays don't think it is such a big deal.

http://ebird.osd.mil/ebfiles/e20110110799381.html

Public version of article...

Gay former sailors back captain ousted over videos, Washington Times, January 10, 2011

 

[red_ryder]

Pity the guy got ousted, he seemed like a good guy, but... no surprise here...

Granted, everybody is at sea and needs to blow off steam once in awhile,
but even I could have told you that it's ill advised for the senior leadership
to be broadcasting dick and fart jokes to the entire command, in this day and age.

Just like in a civilian corporate environment, you have to watch what you say around the water cooler.

 

[BACONATOR]

Pity the guy got ousted, he seemed like a good guy, but... no surprise here...

Granted, everybody is at sea and needs to blow off steam once in awhile,
but even I could have told you that it's ill advised for the senior leadership
to be broadcasting dick and fart jokes to the entire command, in this day and age.

Just like in a civilian corporate environment, you have to watch what you say around the water cooler.

EXACTLY. I know some will mourn it as the "good old Navy" dying, but does anyone think this video would have caused any less fallout in the civilian world? See what happens if any manager/executive in a fortune 500 company puts himself on video saying "fag" and the like.... it won't be pretty.

Yeah yeah yeah... we're "warfighters". I got it. Doesn't mean we can completely forego a professional front....

I am like any other Navy pilot... making completely inappropriate/offensive jokes... but you have to know when to do it, and who your audience is.

 

[CAMike]

EXACTLY. I know some will mourn it as the "good old Navy" dying, but does anyone think this video would have caused any less fallout in the civilian world? See what happens if any manager/executive in a fortune 500 company puts himself on video saying "fag" and the like.... it won't be pretty.

Yeah yeah yeah... we're "warfighters". I got it. Doesn't mean we can completely forego a professional front....

I am like any other Navy pilot... making completely inappropriate/offensive jokes... but you have to know when to do it, and who your audience is.

You state that you are guilty of occasional inappropriate jokes...and you have to know your audience right?

Do you really think the XO didn't have ANY measures in place to ensure that video didn't make it off the ship? I dare say his superiors likely duplicated those efforts. Knowing "when to do it" isn't a realistic expectation. I can assure you that you won't be able to cover your back side in everything that you do during your entire career. Your peers and subordinates may vouch for you as a person as a kind of damage control IF you walk on water but that's not going to undo any existing damage.

This XO was well respected and liked by all accounts, yet "someone" on that ship successfully attempted to get this videos to a civilian newspaper and have the "Navy" tried in the court of public opinion. This isn't even remotely about the "good old Navy" dying. It's about trying to keep an honorable institution out of sometimes twisted world of public opinion. You all deserve that effort.

 

[exhelodrvr]

EXACTLY. I know some will mourn it as the "good old Navy" dying, but does anyone think this video would have caused any less fallout in the civilian world? See what happens if any manager/executive in a fortune 500 company puts himself on video saying "fag" and the like.... it won't be pretty.

Yeah yeah yeah... we're "warfighters". I got it. Doesn't mean we can completely forego a professional front....

I am like any other Navy pilot... making completely inappropriate/offensive jokes... but you have to know when to do it, and who your audience is.

That's not the point - the point is if relieving him was an appropriate step to take, particularly for something that occurred years ago.

 

[A4sForever]

Sorry ... in the "good ol' Navy", no CO/XO in my experience would have been caught dead making or participating in a similar 'skit' ... it just wasn't done. ESPECIALLY the CO/XO of the ship -- they were 'gods' (small 'g') and they were wa-a-a-a-a-a-a-ay head & shoulders above participation or sanctioning a similar demonstration.

People let off steam -- in many ways, but nothing like this.

Soooooooo .... I guess this entire exercise is symptomatic of the mindset of some (many?) in the "not-so-good 'NEW' Navy" ... ??? All in the interest of 'letting off steam', of course ...

I still think it was below average ...

And don't leave a trail to put yourself on report, in any case ...

 

[insanebikerboy]

Sorry ... in the "good ol' Navy", no CO/XO in my experience would have been caught dead making or participating in a similar 'skit' ... it just wasn't done. ESPECIALLY the CO/XO of the ship -- they were 'gods' (small 'g') and they were wa-a-a-a-a-a-a-ay head & shoulders above participation or sanctioning a similar demonstration.

People let off steam -- in many ways, but nothing like this.

Soooooooo .... I guess this entire exercise is symptomatic of the mindset of some (many?) in the "not-so-good 'NEW' Navy" ... ??? All in the interest of 'letting off steam', of course ...

I still think it was below average ...

And don't leave a trail to put yourself on report, in any case ...

Foc'sle follies?

 

[The Chief]

.... mourn it as the "good old Navy" dying, ...

Oh, yeah, I have heard rumors of sewing circles, on the larger ships of course.

But while on the subject, wonder how that same manager would fare if he ordered everyone to hump a 25 click forced march. Or order everyone to stay in the building for 180 days. How do you mean, "that is different"?

 

[insanebikerboy]

...in the civilian world?

We're not the civilian world. Lots of things are different.

 

[A4sForever]

Foc'sle follies?

Of course ... but funny stuff ... i.e., personalities, liberty, flying, 'REAL STUFF' ... things that were actually 'clever' and/or 'humorous' that most of the Air Wing was knowledgeable about, anyway.

Not the kind of homo-erotic, edgy, SNL/MTV/the SOUP/Ron White/borderline stuff we're talkin' about in this thread.

And the ship's CO/XO were not the 'ringleaders' in my experience ... they were sometimes participants to a limited degree, but they were NOT the object of the exercise.

Sorry ... I don't think it's possible to justify this for a ship's CO/XO ... you can try, but it was d-u-m-b.

The result?? The Navy lost a good carrier CO ... justify THAT.

 

[The Chief]

.... no CO/XO in my experience would have been caught dead making or participating in a similar 'skit' ... .

Oh, I am not so sure. We had some very raunchy equator crossings, some film (8 mm of course) made it back to Honolulu. However, no one got fired over the incident, to my knowledge. Of course no women were aboard the ship, either. Homosexuals, obviously.

Heartily concur, today one must exercise more care.

BT K