E-2/C-2 Life?

[Max the Mad Russian]

As Uncle Fester mentioned above, the sight picture is the biggest difference. When I'm flying from the right (at the field), I still ask the guy in the left to verify my nose alignment.

Thank you for explanation. Any features of Grumman designs to have the better sight from the left seat? If so, that could be a tradition from AF Guardian and A2F Intruder where pilot's seat was either shifted to the left (AF) or just left one (A-6). Or something about human being as such - i.e. it is always better for any pilot to be there?

 

[scoolbubba]

You can land a P-3 from either seat; there's just not a really good reason to do a right seat landing, especially with a mission aircraft, other than proficiency. We learn in the left seat, then do a right seat syllabus prior to aircraft commander. Other than for letting junior guys take reps, if I was signing for it, I was taking off and probably landing from the left seat, as that's where the nose wheel steering is. I always considered that my last ditch chance to keep it on the runway if things went really sideways.

I'm one of those left seat sitters who flies with his right hand, swaps if I need to adjust power, and goes back to flying with his right hand with the exception of on final/in the flare. T-6ism carryovers, I assume, because I used to be an ambidextrous pilot. I got scolded for it at VP-30, so I played nice, did it their way, and then went back to flying my way as soon as I left that swamp (again).

Any kind of EP with enough pilots on board to do a seat swap, and the AC should be taking the landing from the left seat (unless he's a dumbass, then all bets are off).

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

unless he's a dumbass, then all bets are off

Understood, thanks. I'm not aviator regretfully and so these naive questions. Aside, here in Russia, if you visit some MPRA airplane on public display, you will clearly see the plate "aircraft commander" on the left seat of, say, seaplane Be-12 in Maritime museum of Kaliningrad. In an everyday Russian aviation parlance "to sit left" means to be AC, "reseat to the left" means to be assigned AC, so it is not common to swap the seats freely or at least often. Though, as the Bear community in Soviet and Russian Navy, presenting the crowd of different WSOs dedicated to recco, intel, ECM and ASW jobs which are all creative by nature rather than to attack or bombing, was always slightly more of "gypsy"-style against the same type of Air Force (very rigid and disciplined - fuckin' nukes, after all), the naval Bears were considered "pirate ships in the air", their radio-operators could at least moderately speak English and even Spanish, got the HF-broadcasting of Caribbean and put Led Zep via intercom for the entire crew's pleasure, and eventually swap pilots' seats even to a navigation or intel WSOs "there you go - take my shoes on and bear all responsibility" for several minutes while enroute from Cola Peninsula to a Cuban strips somewhere high over Atlantic, and so on. But landing a Bear, especially in a crosswing, takes both pilots at the controls: co-axial props very sensitive to a pitch changing on low RPMs left very marginal time to correct any mistakes......

 

[HAL Pilot]

Just to fuck with Max's mind....

In the airline world the Captain (aircraft commander) always flies and lands from the left seat. The First Officer (copilot) always flies and lands from the right seat. Who is flying typically swaps every other leg but they stay in their same seat.

For non-carrier military aircraft, it is just a convention that whoever is pilot flying does so and lands from the left seat. The aircraft doesn't care and it's made to land from either seat. The sight picture isn't that different to where it matters.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Just to fuck with Max's mind....

In the airline world the Captain (aircraft commander) always flies and lands from the left seat. The First Officer (copilot) always flies and lands from the right seat. Who is flying typically swaps every other leg but they stay in their same seat.

For non-carrier military aircraft, it is just a convention that whoever is pilot flying does so and lands from the left seat. The aircraft doesn't care and it's made to land from either seat. The sight picture isn't that different to where it matters.

Well, thanks. As a summary from experienced NFO
I should tell you - while it is psychologically right to say "if I'd live my life again, I'll do just the same I did in a present life", I'd rather go Air Force college for WSO (there's no other way to become aviation WSO here in Russia no matter which service you'll join afterwards) aiming to join Naval Air and be Nav or Intel WSO in naval Bear, May or Midas subcommunities, to be fair. I'm too impulsive to be a pilot

 

[zippy]

Just to fuck with Max's mind....
In the airline world the Captain (aircraft commander) always flies and lands from the left seat. The First Officer (copilot) always flies and lands from the right seat. Who is flying typically swaps every other leg but they stay in their same seat.

Apparently certain Air Force tanker communities do thing the same way. I talked to one recently and they were shocked I'd put my 2P/3P in the left seat so they could take the landing and that I could land from the right seat as a PPC.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Well, thanks. As a summary from experienced NFO

Yeah I'm an experienced NFO.

But I'm an even more experienced pilot flying as an A330 Captain at a major airline.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

But I'm an even more experienced pilot flying as an A330 Captain at a major airline.

Didn't know, sorry. To me, airline business is industry, and industry, in turn, is all about management and supervision rather than leadership. Swapping seats is an outcome of leadership way. Be nailed to assigned seat - is a rigid SOP, a process, something business admires much more than NavAir, imho. NATOPS is full of SOPs too, yes, but I think this is guideline rather than tenet.

 

[HAL Pilot]

Didn't know, sorry. To me, airline business is industry, and industry, in turn, is all about management and supervision rather than leadership. Swapping seats is an outcome of leadership way. Be nailed to assigned seat - is a rigid SOP, a process, something business admires much more than NavAir, imho. NATOPS is full of SOPs too, yes, but I think this is guideline rather than tenet.

In other words you don't no shit about pilots and flying for either the military or airlines. Your opinion couldn't be further from the truth.

I find airline flying much less restrictive than military flying both in SOPs but also on the decision I'm allowed to make ( which can have major financial consequences). I'm much more independent as an airline Captain than I was as a military mission commander. Some types of decisions to be made are different (i.e. weapons versus economic) but many are the same (i.e. flying safely) Further, I've never been "hostility" questioned or second quested about a decision in the airlines where that is a common "leadership" trait in the military.

Seat swapping versus not swapping has nothing to do with leadership. It's just a technique used in the airlines. Also, leadership is just as important in an airline cockpit and with an airline crew as it is in a military cockpit and with a military crew. To think otherwise is just plain ridiculous.

I also find it amusing to hear rigidity and leadership opinions from someone who came from the Russian / Soviet military. Especially since historically ( all the way back to the Czars) leadership was a bullet in the head for any "Comrade" displeasing a senior officer or government official.

 

[Max the Mad Russian]

Well, I won't insist on some opinion, eventually you're NFO and airline pilot and the thin red line between leadership and supervision on one side and leadership and stupidity on the other is much clearer than for me.

Let's say I understood your points.

But what about leadership in Russia - yeah, it's not as easy as it seems, as no Russian military, naval and AF training installation contains subject "leadership". It simply doesn't exist due to the old (probably oldest, from Ivan the Terrible time) unwritten law of Russian military tradition: leadership cannot be taught, it's inborn. You either have the balls or don't, from the cradle. And so Russian military tradition doesn't mind to accept that the word "leadership" an-mass means "full set of technics of management" and has a lot of fun from US military leadership training. Yet I don't know is that true or not, but this Russian approach works with roughly the same effeciency just like yours. On this point I suppose we should quit this theme in this turboprop topic, which is my sincere offer to you.

 

[Hopeful Hoya]

Wondering if there are any E2 JO single anchor types that would be willing to talk about their experiences in the fleet. Haven't seen any floating around in Milton and I was thinking about putting it on my dream sheet.

 

[picklesuit]

Wondering if there are any E2 JO single anchor types that would be willing to talk about their experiences in the fleet. Haven't seen any floating around in Milton and I was thinking about putting it on my dream sheet.

First one up, last one down, you have a pretty tight wardroom, but your plane likes to break.

Carrier aviation without the sexiness of flying a jet...

The hardest part will be seeing all your C-2 friends from advanced going to their hotel room every night while you go to midrats on the boat...

 

[nittany03]

The hardest part will be seeing all your C-2 friends from advanced going to their hotel room every night while you go to midrats on the boat...

And double cycles for all my friends!

 

[pilot_man]

First one up, last one down, you have a pretty tight wardroom, but your plane likes to break.

Carrier aviation without the sexiness of flying a jet...

The hardest part will be seeing all your C-2 friends from advanced going to their hotel room every night while you go to midrats on the boat...

If I could go back and do it all over again, and be guaranteed a COD spot, I would do that in a heartbeat. All the fun of the boat with none of the ass pain. No night traps, minimum shitty food, and lots and lots of time in really cool places.

The E-2 on the other hand...

 

[SynixMan]

Hasn't happened yet, but once CMV-22s become their own selection track out of Primary, it's going to be very coveted. Will be interesting how they select people for the first set of Cat Is. Also will take the sweetener out of what was "E2/C2" selections.