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Europe under extreme duress

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I don't really worry that he will try to withdraw from NATO or anything crazy like that, but I do seriously worry that he will tell Putin "if you stop fighting now, I'll let you keep everything you currently occupy".
Last thing I read was…if Ukraine wants money they need to go to the negotiating table and to Russia, if they don’t show up willing then the US will give Ukraine more weapons with better technology. Frankly, it sounds like a smart proposal.

That pretty much parrots Russia's starting point for 'negotiations', and Russia has violated/ignored previous agreements with Ukraine and others repeatedly.

I can’t think of any national political figure that hasn’t been completely skewered including other actual heroes - it is the game.

That's certainly a...rationalization.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
That's certainly a...rationalization.
It’s not a rationalization, it is politics. They attack their opponents. I’ll readily admit that Trump has raised it to a fever pitch (aided by the Social Media era) and always strikes for the heart, but Clinton’s campaign referred to Dole (WWII hero) as the “one handed hatchet man,” a nickname he earned after tossing a zinger at Mondale (Korean War) “If we added up the killed and wounded in Democrat wars in this century it would be about 1.6 million Americans” basically accusing democrats of starting every war in the 1900’s.

Such things are as old as America’s political history.

Abraham Lincoln insulted war hero and army commander George McCellan by saying, “He’s got his headquarters where his hindquarters ought to be.”

Woodrow Wilson insulted over half the Senate when they refused to sign off on his League of Nations idea noting that, “The senators of the United States have no use for their heads, except to serve as a knot to keep their bodies from unraveling.”

Harry Truman attacked an American legend, Eisenhower, “The general doesn’t know any more about politics than a pig knows about Sunday.”

Lyndon Johnson poked fun at Gerald Ford (USN, WWII), “He’s a nice guy, but he played too much football with his helmet off.” (Johnson said worse of others).

The point is, we have never lived in an era of gentlemanly politics, the only difference now is that every off-the cuff comment is amplified over and over again by Social Media.
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I don't really worry that he will try to withdraw from NATO or anything crazy like that, but I do seriously worry that he will tell Putin "if you stop fighting now, I'll let you keep everything you currently occupy".
I believe Congress recently passed legislation that NATO-proofed an isolationist POTUS from withdrawing..

However an isolationist POTUS could easily order his SECDEF to pull all assets out of Country X(let's say Poland), or not participate in joint exercises. I don't believe Congress has any power over such moves.
 

HSMPBR

Not a misfit toy
pilot
I believe Congress recently passed legislation that NATO-proofed an isolationist POTUS from withdrawing..

However an isolationist POTUS could easily order his SECDEF to pull all assets out of Country X(let's say Poland), or not participate in joint exercises. I don't believe Congress has any power over such moves.
Like those against the brutal regimes of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Oh, wait, those are real places. Still shaking my head. I’m so sorry, navy.
 

hscs

Registered User
pilot
I believe Congress recently passed legislation that NATO-proofed an isolationist POTUS from withdrawing..

However an isolationist POTUS could easily order his SECDEF to pull all assets out of Country X(let's say Poland), or not participate in joint exercises. I don't believe Congress has any power over such moves.
Disagree on this - they can make it law that DOD must comply to participate in certain exercises and tie funding to NATO to other DOD projects - such as you must keep troops in Poland if you want more funding for this key program.
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
Disagree on this - they can make it law that DOD must comply to participate in certain exercises and tie funding to NATO to other DOD projects - such as you must keep troops in Poland if you want more funding for this key program.
I suppose that's right, but wouldn't those constraints have to wait until the next FY's NDAA? Honestly don't know.
 

hscs

Registered User
pilot
I suppose that's right, but wouldn't those constraints have to wait until the next FY's NDAA? Honestly don't know.
Yes, but we always seem to be late getting an NDAA. I bet it will be signed after we know the election results.
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
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Random8145

Registered User
Contributor
6 years ago I never would have said "No POTUS will stay in the public's good graces by shitting all over one of nation's most famous POWs who devoted his life to public service", but look how that turned out with Senator McCain.
I would dispute that McCain really was "devoting his life to public service" in terms of his government career. I mean "yes," but he also stayed a Senator because he wanted the power, IMO. That's why they all try to stay in until death takes them. For this reason, I do not view being a Congressperson, and especially a Senator, as public service in the conventional sense (as Senators more get served by the public than the other way around). McCain was also rather clueless about certain issues when he sought the presidency (economics for example)---I mean he had been in the Senate for how many decades by then and had no basic working knowledge of the subject? And he wants to be president? One of his signature pieces of legislation, the McCain-Feingold Act, was blatantly anti-free speech and one could argue done to help himself and other such senators hold power easier. He also, IMO, had an enormous ego developed. I mean he had a presidential funeral. Okay, so he was a POW and I respect his service, and he was a very respected Senator, but that doesn't warrant a presidential level funeral. The media went along with it in order to spite Trump in my opinion.

Regarding what Trump said, that was despicable.
 
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