Thanks much, gentlemen! I've downloaded the BCM guide for my reading pleasure....
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Fight's On! The origins of TOPGUN and dogfights back in the day/future prospects
- Thread starter futrMarineBlueAngel
- Start date
'VAPES has got it -- and Nittany has put up the link to what I was going to suggest you check out -- the vastly overly complex current version of the ACM FTI (at least they still call it 'FTI' ... I guess some things never change 
) ...
BUT: in 1000+ hours of ACM, not once did "we" use the "Trigger Down" terminology -- the word "snapshot" broadcast on the freq, yes -- but not accompanied by "trigger" .... must be a relatively recent development. But since I went to TG-Adversary skool over 25 years ago and had my last ACM hop @ 20 years ago :sleep_125... nothing's recent and anything's possible.
We'd never call a fight off as a result of a "snapshot" -- as it's a high-angles, high-aspect shot with high closure/crossing rate -- it was just a wishful head's up on someone's part and a "you might have just been shot" call on someone else's part ... as it involves a lot of luck and you'll never "know" whether it worked unless you carry REAL BB's in the bird -- which is frowned upon in training.
Even when we later carried the ACMI pods and lit up the big-board ranges @ Nellis & Tyndall a fight would never get knocked off as a result of a called or (later) tape documented "snap" ...
Of course, in "our" case ... we're talkin' iron sights and guns that go "BOOM-BOOM-BOOM" rather than "BUUZZZZZZZZZZ".
) ...BUT: in 1000+ hours of ACM, not once did "we" use the "Trigger Down" terminology -- the word "snapshot" broadcast on the freq, yes -- but not accompanied by "trigger" .... must be a relatively recent development. But since I went to TG-Adversary skool over 25 years ago and had my last ACM hop @ 20 years ago :sleep_125... nothing's recent and anything's possible.
We'd never call a fight off as a result of a "snapshot" -- as it's a high-angles, high-aspect shot with high closure/crossing rate -- it was just a wishful head's up on someone's part and a "you might have just been shot" call on someone else's part ... as it involves a lot of luck and you'll never "know" whether it worked unless you carry REAL BB's in the bird -- which is frowned upon in training.
Even when we later carried the ACMI pods and lit up the big-board ranges @ Nellis & Tyndall a fight would never get knocked off as a result of a called or (later) tape documented "snap" ...
Of course, in "our" case ... we're talkin' iron sights and guns that go "BOOM-BOOM-BOOM" rather than "BUUZZZZZZZZZZ".
That was kinda' SOP in my day(s) when actually locked in the saddle in a guns solution ....I avoid "Trigger down snap" and am more commonly heard saying "Pippers on tracking"
"TRACKING ... TRACKING ... TRACKING ... (usually required 3 times for 'cred') ... GUNS KILL"!!!
*edit* ... Let me back up a second: it was "Pipper's ON ... tracking ... tracking ... etc., etc. ... " If the target did a good defensive/last-ditch maneuver and "broke" your tracking solution -- you were required to call (honor system) "Pipper's OFF" ... followed by "Pipper's ON" if you reacquired a good shot/solution ...
Followed by a huge & hard pull-off left/right and a roll over the top of the recently departed "victim" ...
Followed in the debrief by a liberal application of salve and liniment for the Blue force's pipper burns ...
Followed by a round of beers at the bar if you timed your last hop right ...
I usually call "tracking" until I hear sobbing over the Tac freq.":cowboy_12
(unless I'm defensive, that would just be stupid...)
(unless I'm defensive, that would just be stupid...)
I love it when they cry ...
Or curse on the frequency after you "bounce/bump/thump" 'em and they didn't even see you comin' ...
And sometimes they just "wet" themselves. Don't believe me??? Just look at 'em on the ramp when they dismount and remove their helmets -- soaking wet -- and the wet head is dead.
I used to just start laughing evily on TAC at "turning in fights on" when fighting other IPs...
Is it ok to saddle in on your skipper 2 turns post merge on his last flight in the squadron? He never calls me anymore...:icon_tong
Is it ok to saddle in on your skipper 2 turns post merge on his last flight in the squadron? He never calls me anymore...:icon_tong
You know; I'm not sure how to read that ... as I waved the Admiral off for being LIG and HE never calls ME or sends a card on my birthday anymore ... :icon_cryi:sleep_125
The Last Ace....article
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200903/air-force
The article goes into Col Rodriguez's 3 kills and then on into some history and of course the need for the F-22. Kind of interesting in that the HUD tape was retrieved from a Mig-29 that showed an AIM-7 about to hit him in the face. Read a little blurb from an Indian magazine editor that said during the last Red Flag with the their SU-30, they held a 21:1 kill ratio over our fighters. I of course have no idea if true but good discussion......for those in the know newbies...warning.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200903/air-force
The article goes into Col Rodriguez's 3 kills and then on into some history and of course the need for the F-22. Kind of interesting in that the HUD tape was retrieved from a Mig-29 that showed an AIM-7 about to hit him in the face. Read a little blurb from an Indian magazine editor that said during the last Red Flag with the their SU-30, they held a 21:1 kill ratio over our fighters. I of course have no idea if true but good discussion......for those in the know newbies...warning.
Long In the Groove, underlined -- i.e., extremely.
Ahhhhh.... Fun for you, but not for them!
Soooooooooo ... how do you know when to call it off ??? If you don't "call it" ... call a "kill" ... they may try to press something when it's pointless to continue ... I'm not disagreeing w/ your gentleman-ness considerations ... just sayin' what it was like to do "it" for a job ...
It's about training and getting "better" ... lessons learned ... not egos. At least that's the desired outcome ...
Although w/ Naval Aviators, there's always some degree of ego involved.