Fight's On! The origins of TOPGUN and dogfights back in the day/future prospects

[bunk22]

WRT the Red Flag story, that is total crap: The Flankers were part of the blue force! Unless, of course, the Indians are considering kills achieved on the Aggressors as victories against "our fighters".

The article is in on of the aviation journals, maybe Air Forces??? and it was in response to the video that got out on youtube concering the SU-30 capabilities. I didn't buy the magazine but the editor was specific to the F-15/16 but certainly wasn't clear on being blue or red.

 

[HackerF15E]

Well, my squadron was participating as part of the blue force at that same Red Flag, so I've got it on pretty good authority....

 

[bunk22]

Well, my squadron was participating as part of the blue force at that same Red Flag, so I've got it on pretty good authority....

I believe you, I don't believe the article.

 

[flyn4pride]

Dogfight? It was a BVR kill, right?
Sorry, couldn't resist.

Huggy,

I might be thinking of the wrong thing, but the same pilot and his wingman are in an episode of Dogfights (Desert Aces) and he goes through an engagement during Desort storm with some migs. This one wasn't BVR as he watched the plane get nailed and smack the desert floor.

 

[bunk22]

Huggy,

I might be thinking of the wrong thing, but the same pilot and his wingman are in an episode of Dogfights (Desert Aces) and he goes through an engagement during Desort storm with some migs. This one wasn't BVR as he watched the plane get nailed and smack the desert floor.

Thats Rico, he had the only turning engagement with a Mig-29 and the pilot split-s'ed into the dirt.

 

[flyn4pride]

for some reason i was thinking someone else was involved in that one. thanks for the correction

 

[HuggyU2]

Thats Rico, he had the only turning engagement with a Mig-29 and the pilot split-s'ed into the dirt.

OK, but it's a stretch. IIRC, the MiG saw his buddy get splashed, realized he was in a bunch of trouble, and tried to Split-S from 2,000' when he realized the Eagles were champing at the bit to kill him.
Since he might have been "tally" on the Eagles, I suppose that would be a "dogfight".

 

[nittany03]

OK, but it's a stretch. IIRC, the MiG saw his buddy get splashed, realized he was in a bunch of trouble, and tried to Split-S from 2,000' when he realized the Eagles were champing at the bit to kill him.
Since he might have been "tally" on the Eagles, I suppose that would be a "dogfight".

My personal favorite story from that era was the EF-111 crew that managed to get a MiG to do something similar. Way to be offensive when defensive. :icon_tong

 

[Single Seat]

OK, but it's a stretch. IIRC, the MiG saw his buddy get splashed, realized he was in a bunch of trouble, and tried to Split-S from 2,000' when he realized the Eagles were champing at the bit to kill him.
Since he might have been "tally" on the Eagles, I suppose that would be a "dogfight".

A rocks kill is still a kill.

 

[bunk22]

OK, but it's a stretch. IIRC, the MiG saw his buddy get splashed, realized he was in a bunch of trouble, and tried to Split-S from 2,000' when he realized the Eagles were champing at the bit to kill him.
Since he might have been "tally" on the Eagles, I suppose that would be a "dogfight".

Well I'm certainly not the expert and my lingo can be wayyyyyyyy off. From the dogfight episode, it looked like they went around in a circle a few times.

 

[bunk22]

A rocks kill is still a kill.

One of those cost effecient kills?

 

[Pugs]

My personal favorite story from that era was the EF-111 crew that managed to get a MiG to do something similar. Way to be offensive when defensive. :icon_tong

Yep, and I'm pretty sure the USAF didn't give them a kill for it.

 

[Flash]

Yep, and I'm pretty sure the USAF didn't give them a kill for it.

My personal favorite story from that era was the EF-111 crew that managed to get a MiG to do something similar. Way to be offensive when defensive. :icon_tong

I talked to this author about that kill:

Debrief: A Complete History of U.s. Aerial Engagements - 1981 to the Present

He is a former F-111/F-15E pilot and said he would love to have the EF-111 get credit for the kill, but that the facts don't support it.

 

[Mumbles]

I talked to this author about that kill:

Debrief: A Complete History of U.s. Aerial Engagements - 1981 to the Present

He is a former F-111/F-15E pilot and said he would love to have the EF-111 get credit for the kill, but that the facts don't support it.

Quizmo!! That actually looked like a terrific book he wrote.

 

[HeyJoe]

There is a problem with Rico's claim about that picture: the MiG-29 camera doesn't record forward through the combining glass. It records DOWN through the actual CRT that generates the HUD symbology.

A journalist friend of mine who has written numerous books on the F-15 (including one that details the history of all the F-15 kills), when I sent him the article, commented that the AIM-7 photo is supposedly from a drone that was shot down.

Not sure of the real story.

WRT the Red Flag story, that is total crap: The Flankers were part of the blue force! Unless, of course, the Indians are considering kills achieved on the Aggressors as victories against "our fighters".

It is an urban legend. I have the exact same photo given to me by friends at China Lake after I took over Air-to-air Missile Requirements Officer. It is from a test shot.

Quizmo!! That actually looked like a terrific book he wrote.

Next time, bring $50 and you can leave with it!