Firing at us? Trying to help you?

[Mayday]

Addressing the 'ethical line of looting':

I'm gonna have to go with zero tolerance. It's all well and good to blur the lines to "save your starving family," but obviously as soon as that's allowed to happen, the more brazen these people get, until you get something resembling Mogadishu:

From the original link by Fmr1833,CNN Article,

"In a sign of growing lawlessness, Tenet HealthCare Corp asked authorities late Wednesday to help evacuate a fully functioning hospital in Gretna after a supply truck carrying food, water and medical supplies was held up at gunpoint.

Anyone else's jaw drop?

 

[jamnww]

I'm gonna have to go with zero tolerance. It's all well and good to blur the lines to "save your starving family," but obviously as soon as that's allowed to happen, the more brazen these people get, until you get something resembling Mogadishu:

From the original link by Fmr1833,CNN Article,


Anyone else's jaw drop?

Mine did...that is pretty blazen. Glad I got my AR w/ me.

 

[T-man]

from: http://www.local6.com/news/4923274/detail.html

"No one has thought enough of us to even bring us a cup of water," one man said.

Is it just me, or does anyone else find this comment to be completely selfish/self centered in nature? When I read this my reaction was 'why haven't you gone searching/asking around for water (or shelter, food, or whatever else you may need) instead of standing around waiting for someone to come along and wait on you hand and foot?'

Don't get me wrong, I am all for sending as much aid as possible. I just can't help but get the impression from such a comment that people are standing around expecting to be helped now (or yesterday as the case may be) discounting the fact that there are thousands, if not millions of others in just the same situation, and not everyone can be helped at once. And as such, all those needing help, should be doing their part in helping each other in whatever way they can, rather than standing around complaining and expecting to have everything handed to them like they're the only one in need.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm heartless, I'm actually far from it, it's just that this comment rubs the wrong way with me a bit. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those whom have been effected by Katrina.

 

[phrogpilot73]

It's eerie, watching the news and reading the articles, and seeing the pictures. Reminds me VERY much of Liberia. A side by side picture of the Superdome and Samuel K. Doe stadium might be interesting to see. Of course, we aren't embroiled in a civil war with children soldiers...

 

[Fmr1833]

I, too, am dumbfounded by the water cup comment. Being sick or physically unable to leave is one thing, but as for me I would head somewhere else and SEEK help. When my family suffered a complete loss from Charlie last year I traveled to help them and stayed for several days. We walked/waded to FEMA distribution sites for water and food. If you are able to walk then head for the Dome or go towards where the helos seem to be originating from. Poor Floridians were able to walk 10-12 miles to help during Charlie, Francis, Ivan, and Jeanne last year...why can't the poor citizens of New Orleans do the same.

I have an answer, but first let me say this...I am not talking about people who are stuck on their roofs, because common sense allows me to see that there is no way off the roof. You can't go down through the house because it's flooded and you may drown before you find an opening out. You shouldn't jump because you dont know what is below the waterline. So for folkes in that situation, I feel sorry for them but trust that our brethren are doing their best to save them.

Back to my thoughts on why the "cup of water" comment happened. We live in a welfare state...there is no way around that. When you raise an entire generation of people who are used to depending on the federal government for everything, is it really any wonder that when the stuff hits the fan they are helpless?

I'm not trying to make this a race thing at all...please do not misconstrue what I am saying. I am simply pointing out the dis-service done to the poor people of New Orleans by allowing them to grow up in a state of financial enslavement. I say teach a man to fish and he can feed himself.

 

[Herc_Dude]

Back to my thoughts on why the "cup of water" comment happened. We live in a welfare state...there is no way around that. When you raise an entire generation of people who are used to depending on the federal government for everything, is it really any wonder that when the stuff hits the fan they are helpless?

I'm not trying to make this a race thing at all...please do not misconstrue what I am saying. I am simply pointing out the dis-service done to the poor people of New Orleans by allowing them to grow up in a state of financial enslavement. I say teach a man to fish and he can feed himself.

Great point. We do live in a welfare state where certain people are constantly looking for others to solve their problems, pay their bills, feed their kids, give them a new car, etc ... the list goes on. I don't see the problem getting better anytime soon. I know kids going to college who might claim one parent on their student aide packages who is unemployeed (while the other parent makes 6 figures...) and end up getting thousands in finiancial aide through college while others who need it go without. We cannot avoid the welfare state nor can we point it in the right direction to help the people it was created to help! Where does it end?

It truly is a dis-service to those people down there. They have survived on fed. and state gov't handouts for their entire lives - not because the needed them but because it was there for the taking. Now, a disaster like this hits and they are screwed. They can't help themselves because they have never had to before. They have had the "crutch" of the welfare state their whole lives.

 

[MIDNJAC]

If you think thats bad, read this....it is originally from corvetteforums.com. Pretty unbelievable that Americans could stoop to this level on such a massive scale.
*******************************************************
Mods can you allow this to stay and not be absorbed into the Hurricane thread please.

First off I wanted to post what REALLY is going on in this city. Please don't get this thread locked people. The news stations are only showing a minuscule of reality. This post may offend some people but I will post what I saw, like it or not it is REALITY.
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Well last night I was watching the 6pm news when they announced the 17th street canal pumps failed as well as another break in the levee. My house is right off St. Charles Ave. and up to 6pm yesterday is was the only part of the city that was dry. Since the pumps failed and the new break St. Charles Ave. would be under 9ft of water in the next 12-15hrs. My brother and I felt if we wanted to save anything we had to leave NOW. We loaded up flashlights, rope, our medical ID's, both our .45 Glocks, 2 shotguns and rode out. En-route we listened to the radio which broad casted all the news about the looters and what not, in hindsight it was a mistake. My mother didn't want us to go by dad who is a Vietnam vet told to be safe and "shoot to kill" if it ever comes to that.

One the way we had to pass 5-6 checkpoints to allow entry into the city. We stated we were medical personnel who were activated, showed our ID and off we went. On the radio reports were coming in about the officer who was shot in the head, the 2 gunman who opened fired on the NOPD station, and how looters were carjacking cars to get out of the city. This started making my brother nervous and giving seconds thoughts.

Anyway we get to the city and it looks like a freaking war zone. The best visual I can give is the movie "Blackhawk Down" when all the Somalians are rushing the city. They are people EVERYWHERE, they are pissed off, and all have weapons, 2X4's, Axes, and guns. If this wasn't bad enough we are 2 white boys in a truck in a sea several hundred armed pissed off blacks. There wasn't a white person to be found. I couldn't get over the little 8-10yr old kids with weapons, I ever saw one carry a claw hammer!

These people were absolutely nuts. They rammed trucks (stolen I'm sure) into jewelry stores, stealing items; they were tearing apart Wal-Mart carrying out TV's, Playstations, DVD players, etc. One lady was wheeling out an entire rack of merchandise, not sure what it was but sure wasn't clothes for food. They were all laughing and carrying on like it's freaking Christmas.

We got stuck in traffic when we see the group of guys walking down the street w/ AK-47's, at that point the "pucker factor" kicked in, a couple Glocks and shotguns were no match for that. We haul azz trying to get to Uptown when we see these people chopping down the front door w/ an axe of this $4-5 million dollar mansion on ST. Charles Ave. I was just in total awe because it was so surreal. Making matters worse it's 11pm at night there is no electricity and you really can see anything or anyone until they are right up on you.

Our plan was to be in and out in 30min, this included putting his Harley on the trailer. It would have taken me 5-10min tops to get my stuff, all I wanted was my pictures from college, my clothes/shoes, and my computer tower. Well he got scared saying we are going to get jumped while putting the bike on the trailer. Keep in mind this is the only area in the city that is dry. So just like rats who move to higher ground these people were doing the same. Word must have gotten out that Uptown was dry so there started to be a large influx of people.

Needless to say he wanted to go home rather than take our chances. While it was the smart thing to do I was beyond infuriated w/ him because we made it this far. He just kept saying our lives aren't worth it. So we turned around, our next challenge was getting out of the city while not getting jacked. Reports came out that people were jumping in the back of truck holding the drivers at gunpoint. Traffic started to slow so I just nailed it got out as fast as I could.

Even though he was the voice of reason I'm still pissed. All I have is my life and the clothes on my back. I lost my house(which is now 9ft underwater) ALL my clothes, TV, computer, furniture, and photo albums and videos from childhood and college. What makes this worse is my brother owned the house and I was a tenant and I didn't have renters insurance, hindsight is 20/20.

I also hope everyone of the F*(king looters get Tetanus, E-Coli and F*(KING drown. I'm serious I really hope the all die for what they were doing to the city, killing people, and destroying homes. Never in my life have I ever seen people act live savages, it was truly sickening.

 

[TurbosaurusRex]

Absolutely right about the welfare state. But it's not about depending on SOMEONE ELSE to give them food, money, water, a new car, etc...

It's about depending on THE GOVERNMENT. And that is the biggest problem with many people today. Wackos are trying to blame Bush of all people for the slow rate at which help is arriving. Journalists and Analysts on TV are complaining that it "took a natural disaster of this size to bring the president back from vacation." Robert Kennedy, Jr. even wrote that Governor Haley Barbour of Mississippi actually DESERVED a disaster of this size.

How out of touch can they possibly be to believe that government actually does or should have that much to do with this effort? It's not Chertoff and Bush who are ultimately going to be the heroes of this disaster. The heroes are going to be Officer Joe Shmoe and Fireman Larry out there doing their jobs without seeking media attention for it. The heroes are going to be Jane Doe who pulls her kids out of their demolished house and finds a way to stay alive UNTIL help comes.

Oh and another thing...

:icon_rage No vigilante punk with a Walmart semi-auto Remington is going to be remembered. If there's one thing that gets this country boy mad, it's one of my countrymen firing one of my military comrades. Where the F*** is you mind? What kind of future do you think you have now? You think it's bad shooting at a cop?

It's one thing to rescue a group of refugees in Afghanistan while taking fire. But in Louisianna?!?!?!?!

Nuff said... This kind of rage can't be digitized and posted on the internet any more than the kind of suffering that's going on in New Orleans right now. Would to GOD that we could actually do this without having to divert resources to quelling a group of selfish... %#$$&#$%&)#(!!#*%$@#^)^%$$#...

 

[Road Program]

Turbo...I'm with you 100%!!!

 

[PSno23]

from: http://www.local6.com/news/4923274/detail.html



Is it just me, or does anyone else find this comment to be completely selfish/self centered in nature? When I read this my reaction was 'why haven't you gone searching/asking around for water (or shelter, food, or whatever else you may need) instead of standing around waiting for someone to come along and wait on you hand and foot?'

Don't get me wrong, I am all for sending as much aid as possible. I just can't help but get the impression from such a comment that people are standing around expecting to be helped now (or yesterday as the case may be) discounting the fact that there are thousands, if not millions of others in just the same situation, and not everyone can be helped at once. And as such, all those needing help, should be doing their part in helping each other in whatever way they can, rather than standing around complaining and expecting to have everything handed to them like they're the only one in need.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm heartless, I'm actually far from it, it's just that this comment rubs the wrong way with me a bit. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those whom have been effected by Katrina.

Now you see what those of us from New Orleans have had to put up with for so long. Every poor person in that city expects/demands handouts. You don't sound heartless at all, I share the exact same sentiments.

 

[jamnww]

Been watching the news off and on today and I am constantly in awe how people are reacting in New Orleans and elsewhere to this. I have heard MANY blame Bush for the speed of the reaction. I have been astonished that there are people shooting at / hyjacking rescue worker vehicles while they are trying to help. One helo at the convention center today was forced off and had to drop food / water from about 10' because the crowd wouldn't let it land without rushing it. A police detachment sent to organize an evacuation point was forced back by a riot.

Yes, it is a desperate situation and is horrible but for this many people to react in this way is sickening. People are trying to help them and everyone is in such a rush to save themselves that they are preventing the rescuing of those who need it the most. Just sickening.

Thank god some of the looters are being caught...

 

[Road Program]

There's this thing on ABC right now about the problems in New Orleans. Sad and angering on so many different levels.

Where did the human race go from being able to live off the land to being totally dependent on someone else to survive?

This crap is really scary. I've put off buying a gun for all my life, but if this can happen in New Orleans, it can happen anywhere there is a natural disaster. And guess what...I keep getting stationed in areas that are in the paths of natural disasters.

 

[jamnww]

There's this thing on ABC right now about the problems in New Orleans. Sad and angering on so many different levels.

Where did the human race go from being able to live off the land to being totally dependent on someone else to survive?

This crap is really scary. I've put off buying a gun for all my life, but if this can happen in New Orleans, it can happen anywhere there is a natural disaster. And guess what...I keep getting stationed in areas that are in the paths of natural disasters.

I completely agree with you, in fact I just bought more rounds today to make sure...

 

[metro]

If you think thats bad, read this....it is originally from corvetteforums.com. Pretty unbelievable that Americans could stoop to this level on such a massive scale.
*******************************************************
Mods can you allow this to stay and not be absorbed into the Hurricane thread please.

First off I wanted to post what REALLY is going on in this city. Please don't get this thread locked people. The news stations are only showing a minuscule of reality. This post may offend some people but I will post what I saw, like it or not it is REALITY.
.
.
.
.
.

Well last night I was watching the 6pm news when they announced the 17th street canal pumps failed as well as another break in the levee. My house is right off St. Charles Ave. and up to 6pm yesterday is was the only part of the city that was dry. Since the pumps failed and the new break St. Charles Ave. would be under 9ft of water in the next 12-15hrs. My brother and I felt if we wanted to save anything we had to leave NOW. We loaded up flashlights, rope, our medical ID's, both our .45 Glocks, 2 shotguns and rode out. En-route we listened to the radio which broad casted all the news about the looters and what not, in hindsight it was a mistake. My mother didn't want us to go by dad who is a Vietnam vet told to be safe and "shoot to kill" if it ever comes to that.

One the way we had to pass 5-6 checkpoints to allow entry into the city. We stated we were medical personnel who were activated, showed our ID and off we went. On the radio reports were coming in about the officer who was shot in the head, the 2 gunman who opened fired on the NOPD station, and how looters were carjacking cars to get out of the city. This started making my brother nervous and giving seconds thoughts.

Anyway we get to the city and it looks like a freaking war zone. The best visual I can give is the movie "Blackhawk Down" when all the Somalians are rushing the city. They are people EVERYWHERE, they are pissed off, and all have weapons, 2X4's, Axes, and guns. If this wasn't bad enough we are 2 white boys in a truck in a sea several hundred armed pissed off blacks. There wasn't a white person to be found. I couldn't get over the little 8-10yr old kids with weapons, I ever saw one carry a claw hammer!

These people were absolutely nuts. They rammed trucks (stolen I'm sure) into jewelry stores, stealing items; they were tearing apart Wal-Mart carrying out TV's, Playstations, DVD players, etc. One lady was wheeling out an entire rack of merchandise, not sure what it was but sure wasn't clothes for food. They were all laughing and carrying on like it's freaking Christmas.

We got stuck in traffic when we see the group of guys walking down the street w/ AK-47's, at that point the "pucker factor" kicked in, a couple Glocks and shotguns were no match for that. We haul azz trying to get to Uptown when we see these people chopping down the front door w/ an axe of this $4-5 million dollar mansion on ST. Charles Ave. I was just in total awe because it was so surreal. Making matters worse it's 11pm at night there is no electricity and you really can see anything or anyone until they are right up on you.

Our plan was to be in and out in 30min, this included putting his Harley on the trailer. It would have taken me 5-10min tops to get my stuff, all I wanted was my pictures from college, my clothes/shoes, and my computer tower. Well he got scared saying we are going to get jumped while putting the bike on the trailer. Keep in mind this is the only area in the city that is dry. So just like rats who move to higher ground these people were doing the same. Word must have gotten out that Uptown was dry so there started to be a large influx of people.

Needless to say he wanted to go home rather than take our chances. While it was the smart thing to do I was beyond infuriated w/ him because we made it this far. He just kept saying our lives aren't worth it. So we turned around, our next challenge was getting out of the city while not getting jacked. Reports came out that people were jumping in the back of truck holding the drivers at gunpoint. Traffic started to slow so I just nailed it got out as fast as I could.

Even though he was the voice of reason I'm still pissed. All I have is my life and the clothes on my back. I lost my house(which is now 9ft underwater) ALL my clothes, TV, computer, furniture, and photo albums and videos from childhood and college. What makes this worse is my brother owned the house and I was a tenant and I didn't have renters insurance, hindsight is 20/20.

I also hope everyone of the F*(king looters get Tetanus, E-Coli and F*(KING drown. I'm serious I really hope the all die for what they were doing to the city, killing people, and destroying homes. Never in my life have I ever seen people act live savages, it was truly sickening.

This is no joke, right here. This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. **** them, man. They sealed their fate the moment they turned into animals/savages. It's the same reason I feel no pity for whatever happens to any terrorist mother****er out there...anyone who preys upon innocent people, straps a bomb to their kid's chest and sends them in to die instead of having the balls to do it themselves, or takes advantage of a terrible situation in this sort of manner, doesn't even deserve the copper and lead of a .45 JHP round...but nonetheless, I hope someone gives them one, right in the face.

Some might call me a jerk, or insensitive, but I could give a **** less. Because if feeling this way makes me a jerk, and insensitive, and that's wrong, I don't want to be right. I'm sick of being told that I "have to" be sensitive to the needs, feelings, and human rights of people who haven't ever done ONE thing to EARN those rights. I'll save my sympathy for people who actually try to leave the world a better place than they found it, instead of raping it and bleeding it as dry as they possibly can in their all too lengthy lives.

 

[snow85]

guys-- some things to consider:

1. the majority of the people who could get out did so. you're talking about the elderly, the sick, and those who were extremely impoverished/destitute to begin with. (i think you guys have already said this.)

a logical thought: for those complaining about the three day walk they've already taken east on I-10, you could have saved yourself the time, had you taken the walk to the superdome. you would have been sheltered and on your way to some type of evac.

2. on the other hand, the reality is this:

there is nothing left.

i say this from two pov's-- my mom's company does MAJOR business in the region that was hit, and they are working very, very hard to assist their employees.

i have personally spoken to refugees, within the past 10 minutes.

these are people who have NOTHING.

-they won't be allowed to return to the city for at least 4 months. that will be just to look around.

-their homes will be red-flagged (literally) by the government, and condemned. they will be torn down.

-they have no access to cash, as their banking system does not work.

-they have credit card limits.

-they have no food.

-no water.

-no shelter.

-no clean clothing.

-no place to bathe.

-no electricity

-no water pressure for raw sewage removal.

-no trash removal.

-no land line or cell phone service.

-no jobs-- since all the industries have been destroyed.

-no hope of bailing themselves out of the debt that they're incurring-- because there are no jobs left.


these are just a few of the difficulties that these people are dealing with. i'm hoping beyond hope that the human condition that we're seeing is a result of desperation and hopelessness, not being mean-spirited and cruel toward each other. (although i fear that some of it is.)

they don't know what to do.

they think that no help is coming, but what they don't know is that it is EXTREMELY difficult to get TO them. no tv, no radio-- how would they know what is going on on the outside?

put yourself in their shoes for a minute. this could have happened in a lot of places, where a lot of you live, included.