• Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?

    Go here:

    Edit Account Details and Profile

Hard Power and Soft Power

gparks1989

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I’m no longer in the intel loop, but there are signs that the Ukrainians might crack quicker than the Russians. It is a matter of manpower and population. In truth, a peace that allows the U.S. and Europe to better train and arm a revived Ukrainian military is a greater victory than bleeding out another 10,000 Russians.
Based on what I've read about recent proclamations, Ukraine is being left out of the talks and it's bilateral between Russia and US. For those history buffs, that's the same situation that led Ukraine to relinquish its nuclear weapons in the mid-1990s and, it can be argued, left them vulnerable to Russian revisionism. Not a great look considering the amount of Ukranian blood spilled on the battlefields. I hope my reading of that is wrong.
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I’m no longer in the intel loop, but there are signs that the Ukrainians might crack quicker than the Russians. It is a matter of manpower and population. In truth, a peace that allows the U.S. and Europe to better train and arm a revived Ukrainian military is a greater victory than bleeding out another 10,000 Russians.
Bleeding out 10,000 Russians takes a week or two (throw in some NorKs as well).

Are we asking what the Ukrainians want, and their desire to not be under the Russian yoke?
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
Bleeding out 10,000 Russians takes a week or two (throw in some NorKs as well).

Are we asking what the Ukrainians want, and their desire to not be under the Russian yoke?
I honestly don’t have that answer. Trump says he spoke with Zelensky but more importantly, the nexus of this war isn’t US-UR-RU, Europe is deeply involved and will have a seat at the negotiating table regardless of what Trump says. I doubt a Trump/Putin peace talk will get past the Senate.
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
I honestly don’t have that answer. Trump says he spoke with Zelensky but more importantly, the nexus of this war isn’t US-UR-RU, Europe is deeply involved and will have a seat at the negotiating table regardless of what Trump says. I doubt a Trump/Putin peace talk will get past the Senate.
What happens in UKR will affect a lot of other shit in that area. Hopefully we're not getting ready to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
 

Griz882

Frightening children with the Griz-O-Copter!
pilot
Contributor
What happens in UKR will affect a lot of other shit in that area. Hopefully we're not getting ready to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
I’m not sure the political “we” ever imagined a victory. It was obvious for years before the Ukraine War that NATO countries would never fight to defend Ukraine; and on the eve of the invasion, the Biden administration and every other NATO government refused to give Ukraine a timetable for membership. Yet at the same time, they preserved the public illusion that Ukraine would one day join NATO, while still refusing to negotiate a treaty of neutrality with Moscow.

I went back over Hegthseth’s comments and he clearly mentions that going back to the pre-2014 borders is unrealistic. That’s when Obama winked away the Russian take over of Crimea. In that the Ukrainians hold a piece of Mother Russia there is a chance the western edge of the Donbas will become the treaty line.
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
We give them 20 spare nukes (or maybe just tell the world we did) and the complexion of the whole situation changes.

I know, not going to happen.

A thought experiment, wonder what would happen if Ukraine did an underground nuke test, immediately announcing their secret bomb program was effective and they were now a nuke power.

I don't know if you're trolling, or serious with this, but I'm glad it's not going to happen. Even if we just made it look like we were giving UKR nukes, that's still a seriously destabilizing move that dramatically increases the probability of actual nuclear weapons being employed. To say nothing of the precedent it sets for proliferation.
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
A thought experiment-

WHAT IF- what if DC, MD, VA, DE National Guardsmen were given the order to defend the Capitol on J6 and they opened fire on those American Citizens who were part of the riots to gain entry into the Capitol building? How many people would they have killed defending the Capitol? Would their actions have been legal? Would they be charged? If found guilty would they have been pardoned or would they still be in jail?

This is another conversation that I have regularly at work.
This one bothers people- especially among the officer corps.

I would imagine Posse Comitatus comes up a lot in those discussions- it applies to the Guard when called up for federal service, which would seem to be the case in this example, no? Going down the rabbit hole a bit, I found this interesting.
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
I don't know if you're trolling, or serious with this, but I'm glad it's not going to happen. Even if we just made it look like we were giving UKR nukes, that's still a seriously destabilizing move that dramatically increases the probability of actual nuclear weapons being employed. To say nothing of the precedent it sets for proliferation.
I'm not serious, but they have to be thinking back to when they did have nukes and gave them up. What if they indeed had them?

Putin is dead set on taking all of Ukraine. Any peace agreement is going to be just a pause for them.

My worry bead...there are other technology cards, not nuclear explosives, that I wonder if Ukraine isn't contemplating holding in their hand, to be played if it looks like the country is going down. What could they do with a dirty bomb? How dirty could it be and make Moscow a toxic waste dump, ala Chernobyl environs?

I worry about chem-bio, which does not take a million centrifuges to make. Bio in particular. What is their motivation not to do that? A big FU to the rest of the planet that stood by and watched.
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
Operative word is "federal." So it really depends on how a Guard unit is activated, State or Federal orders.

Right. I would assume defending the capitol in DC against rioters would be a result of federal activation, but there is probably more to the "how" of guard unit activation than I, as a mere IRR reservist, would understand.
 

PhrogPhlyer

Two heads are better than one.
pilot
None
defending the capitol in DC ... would be a result of federal activation
Not necessarily. If a State/Territory/District were to send Guard to assist another State/Territory/District at that entities' request, they would most likely not be federalized. Similar to sending State Police or other State agencies to other States in support of natural disasters/etc. Just because they are not in their home State does not automatically make them federal. Should the DOD request/activate a Guard unit, then they would be federalized and fall under the auspices of the UCMJ.
 

Random8145

Registered User
Contributor
A lot has been learned from this war including the basic fact that the U.S. wasn’t remotely prepared for a large peer conflict - a critical wake up call and a a good lesson to learn at very low cost.
Not only were we not prepared, and some could argue that was intentional, but the whole of the EU acted as if they were shocked this could have even happened. Talk about ignoring history.
One huge weakness for the U.S. was lack of artillery, which actually is something I remember an artillery officer had pointed out in an article some years back, saying it could be a major weakness for the U.S. if Russia ever attacked (and this was of course if the Russians demonstrated real capability as well). Artillery capability had been put on the backburner due to the U.S relying on its air power to pound the enemy before sending in ground forces (artillery might be important if the air power is negated due to air defense systems). It also seems no one thought about what if we had to supply an ally with artillery.
The Russians are making miniscule territorial gains right now with UKR holding a tiny bit of Kursk territory. RUS economy is circling the drain...why take any foots/levers off their necks?
JTS11 won't see this, but we've been hearing how the Russian economy is circling the drain for some years now and they still somehow keep soldiering on. I support Ukraine, but the idea that Russia will crack anytime soon might be wishful thinking. It also isn't the Russian economy, it is the Russian-Chinese-North Korean-probably Iranian economy. And Russia unlike most Western countries can self-supply many of the critical resources it needs (oil, gas, lumber, food) plus it has a population culturally attuned to suffering who are poor to begin with.
 
Top