How bad is discrimination in the military?

[spsiratt]

Sweet. I had really hoped this topic would bring out all opinions. I do agree that people are too damn sensitive these days and it causes more problems than it fixes. Unfortunately, a very large part of society believes that not having your feelings hurt is a constitutional right.
Similar to what perchul said, I think the military just tries to eliminate such things to take away an excuse. Noone is able to say, "well, I was in an uncomfortable work environment." If that was the case, you should have reported it and moved on to your next excuse. The military has a way of taking away anything that would hold you back and giving you all the opportunities you need to move ahead. Essentially, if you don't succeed in the military, you are a lazy retard. Sorry if I've offended any lazy retards.

 

[jaerose]

grist, kudos...you did get my nickname right=) I just feel strongly about the topic and wanted to make sure that people on the forum knew where I stood. No harm, no foul.

JR

 

[kawika109]

This topic kind of strayed away from what I really intended to ask. I'm not really concerned about ethnic jokes or even racial slurs (don't worry, I can take all of that crap). What I'm concerned about is discriminatory leadership that will directly affect my rank or job. For example, I want to become an USAF pilot through AFROTC; what happens if my ROTC (or even worse ENJJPT or UPT) CC is bias, or even racist? Same thing could apply to my immediate superiors once I enter the service. Has anyone ever heard of or encountered one? If I do relize I have one and it will likely greatly affect my CR, what can I do about it?

 

[quickandsure]

Well, as pointed out, all services try very hard to have a level playing field. In my 25 plus years of service, I saw jerks and bigots yes, but nothing that hampered assignments, promotions or my well being. There are many avenues for redress should you encounter it. Having said that, I always tried to be better than the next guy, always giving 110%. I ignored (most of the time) the bigots that tried to better me through racism.

Read "Men of Honor". A good book, quite accurate, with some flaws.

I do believe the Corps gets it right most of the time. My opionion, better than the other services. BASED ON MY JUDGEMENT. And again, the story about the 2nd LT with 12 years of service sounds fishy, and on the surface at least, could not happen.

Hope this helps.

 

[slasher]

Do you have a link to this story per chance? I don't see how this guy could serve for 12 years and manage to not get promoted. If one is passed up for promotion 3 times (if memory serves), they are shown the door (up or out)-which for a 2lt would happen much quicker than 12 years. Was he perhaps enlisted for say, 8-10 of those years and conveniently left out that detail to the media? Was he an LDO? It doesn't seem logical to me.

Kid, don't worry yourself about this, seriously. As many have said, only your abilities should keep you from having a successful career. And if anyone stands in the way of that based on prejudice, it would be the end of THEIR career, NOT yours. Good Luck and I hope to one day call you a brother-in-arms.

 

[Undertow]

Hey Kawika, how's HI? I lived out in Makakilo for 7 years and haven't been home since 97. Regardless, I haven't seen much discrimination, some people talk $#!@ but they are corrected immediately on their faults. There is a form of discrimination though that exists due to work performance and personal appearance. In the Navy, the last thing you want to be referred to as in a serious tone is a $#!t bag. As long as you are squared away and bust your butt every day it doesn't matter what color your skin is.

 

[dwitt]

Kawika,

My last post was not directed at you, it was aimed a prior post about running to someone to fix the problem. I understand your concern and it is legitimate, but as many have written, it is not even worth worrying about. The military is highly sensitive to descrimination. My point is only that, no matter how hard you try, you can not change the way some people think. Most people expect the system to correct people, instead people should take the initiative to deal with and handle others that may have backward beliefs.

It does not make sense that some people want to be a leader, yet have to run to someone else when they encounter an obstacle.

 

[spsiratt]

dwitt, what would you suggest someone do if their supervisor is a bigot and writes them a bad evaluation that is undeserved?

 

[jaerose]

I would venture a guess that most people who get a bad eval. think it's undeserved, when in fact it is accurate. In the rare case that an inaccurate eval. is given, I think the first step would have to be gathering evidence to support your claim...ie prior occurrances, opinions of your performance from others, or anything that could put a little uncertainty on whether the report was accurate. Then I would imagine you'd have to take it up through your chain of command.

JR

 

[kimphil]

Originally posted by slasher
Do you have a link to this story per chance? I don't see how this guy could serve for 12 years and manage to not get promoted. If one is passed up for promotion 3 times (if memory serves), they are shown the door (up or out)-which for a 2lt would happen much quicker than 12 years. Was he perhaps enlisted for say, 8-10 of those years and conveniently left out that detail to the media? Was he an LDO? It doesn't seem logical to me.

Kid, don't worry yourself about this, seriously. As many have said, only your abilities should keep you from having a successful career. And if anyone stands in the way of that based on prejudice, it would be the end of THEIR career, NOT yours. Good Luck and I hope to one day call you a brother-in-arms.

Let's talk about discrimination in the military. But don't use this incident to introduce the topic. Produce the original story. Like slasher said, there are too many holes in this story.

From what I understand and I may be wrong, promotion to 1st LT is virtually automatic. For someone not to at least get promoted to 1st LT, but remain in the military for twelve years sounds suspicious.

 

[spsiratt]

Well, let me tell you how I saw it happen once. The supervisor was reported to Social Actions who started an investigation. They looked for any previous accusations, questioned several others in the workplace both about the behavior and attitude of the supervisor as well as the performance of the subordinate. The looked for any previous problems with both the accuser and the accused. When it was discovered that the supervisor had complaints filed at two other bases over the previous 6 years and others stated that he had made racial and sexist remarks about the subordinate, the commander had his way with him and essentially put the brakes on his career. The eval really was unwarranted. I worked with the girl and she was tough to even keep up with, sharp troop.
Sometimes false claims are made and that's where problems come from. If it's something that doesn't affect your career, then shut up and deal with it on your own. Not everyone is going to like you. Hell, I don't like everyone I work with and I've written firewall evals on people that I didn't like because they deserved them. My personal feelings toward a person have nothing to do with their abilities or performance. Unfortunately, not everyone sees things that way and that is a problem. It is very rare in the military, but it happens.
Bottom line: handle things at the lowest level. If you can handle it on your own, do it. If you can't and it's going to affect your career, do what you gotta do.

(looks more like $.04, but that's my $.02 worth)

 

[jaerose]

Yeah, Patmack, I was shocked, too!

JR

 

[kawika109]

Sorry I don't have a link to the article, at appeared in a newspaper a year ago or two, and I was only told about it; I didn't actually read it myself. After hearing all the feedback so far, I cease to believe the story any longer. As for Social Actions, this applies to ROTC, ENJJPT and UPT as well, correct?

 

[slasher]

Yes. You will always have a path for recourse should you encounter anything of the sort. Just ask, and if stonewalled, keeping going further up your chain of command and eventually someone will take action.

 

[wildflyin69]

I'm half Lebanese and half colombian (I have an arabic last name). I must admit that I'm a little nervous about how I would be recieved by the other officers based on my last name. My father fought in world war II and his side of the family (the arabic side) has been in America since the 1890's. But still, seeing how neither country of origin is looked on favorably by most people it makes me quite nervous as to what it will be like for me.