How bad is discrimination in the military?

[jaerose]

Are we talking about the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, or present day? We can bring up any past occurrences of discrimination, but the present situation is better than it's probably ever been and I would venture a guess that it's going to improve more. Yes, there are always exceptions and ignorant jerks around, but like I said...those are becoming more and more the exception.

JR

BTW, I would say there's more discrimination between military branches than anything. Read the 'Air Force Buddy' thread on this forum.

 

[Mustangable]

I guess first of all, I don't trust ABC News spin that much (I guess that makes me an ABC'ist).

I believe that servicemen given poor evaluations (as said in that article) usually rate it for poor performance and not their color. As stated before in previous threads, it is just too easy for the evaluator to get the boot if he grades someone using any means other than specified criteria. Most people who are ticked off for getting assigned "bad jobs" (nice attitude, my man, in that article) or poor evaluations don't want to take personal accountability and responsibility for their situation and will use the most plausable scapegoat they can, and for some, racial discrimination fits quite nicely.

To what level should one place blame on others before he takes a good hard look at himself in the mirror and say 'I am where I am now because of what I have done or did not do?', or 'This is what I asked for; United States Marine Corps! (HOORAH!)'.

Any Marines or former Marines out there experience discrimination while in? I sure didn't see any, except for when it had to do with the ability of the Marine (remedials for PT, etc.) Maybe this is mostly prevalent in the other services. What say you, Gentlemen?

 

[vegita1220]

The thing with Asians/Orientals is that most of them get really f###ing annoyed at being referred to in general as Chinese/Japanese. Thus the terms "chink" and "jap," whether or not they're meant as insults, annoy the #### out of me. At least get the racial slur right and call me a "gook." Or I'll go "Chinese" on your ass.

But seriously speaking, from what I was pretty close w/four men who are now in the military, all of them Asian. None have mentioned discrimination as a serious problem, and one noted that during training someone in the training cadre made a racial remark and was immediately chewed out. I don't know, but I'd hope that other officers would be professional enough to set whatever racial beefs they have aside.

 

[quickandsure]

Richard:
We are getting far afield from the original question but I did want to address those issue you sent my way.

Well now, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 makes it a crime to discriminate based on colour, race, and etc. Title VII of the Act specifically address sex. Some but not all of the Tail Hook folk were prosecured under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act. That act also established the EEOC which, inter alia, drives much of the efforts within the military, Navy at least. I taught at lease 300 classes on discrimination, and can tell you that responses from participants, question and etc in each class were the same. The most damning was that "it does not exist".

Oriental, well I agree it is a term I do not like. As American Indian who speaks Japanese have been mistaken for an oriental. No harm no pain. I use the term based on Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary, which does not identify the Oriental as slur. The same dictionary identifies Jap as a racial slur. So I will defer to old man Merriam.

While we are on the subject of discrimination in the military, we need only to look at the Air Force Academy. It is tearing the place apart. While it burns, we can merrily say " .. discrimination does not exist ..." or we can try to fix the problem. The Civil Rights Act will be a prominent vehicle to fix the problem in Colorado Springs.

 

[jaerose]

What's going on with the AF academy? I'm not familiar with that situation and I'm curious.

Vegita, not trying to start an argument, but aren't your 4 friends Americans? I would say they're at least Asian-Americans. I think it's the isolation of a group in American as this, or that which causes the continued use of slurs. I'm not an expert by any means, but I think that by insisting that we be called "whatever"-Americans, instead of just Americans continues to widen the gap between people of different descent. Don't get me wrong, I think everyone should know and embrace their cultural heritage, but we're all Americans and share the American culture as well, so by isolating ourselves into an ethnic group I think we're making it easier for bigots to perpetuate ethnic stereotypes and discriminatory behavior. Of course, that's just my opinion.

JR

 

[BYSun]

Interesting topic folks,

FYI, the reason "oriental" is not looked highly upon by many "Asian-Americans" is because it generally refers to a particular design in objects, art, artifacts, philosophies, etc... from the region. That being said, it is usually 'meant', when describing people, as simply one who's ancestors originated from "The Orient", or the right half of the big continent. I suppose it would be like calling a WASP a "baroque". Personally, I have no problem with the term (being part asian myself). However, "Jap" was the popular term of choice for the Japanese during WWII (and all the crappy things they did) and still has some carry over effect. Refer to me how you will, as long as you promote me when I have earned it. Personally I dont like being a "hyphenated American". It gives me a headache when I have to decide which box to check, but a small smile when I check both boxes. ~_^

About the AF academy, I suggest you check out CNN.com or some other new sites and you will find a flood of articles about SERIOUS sexual misconduct 'allegedly' endured by the women serving there. An official report read...oh what the hell, here's a link...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/23/national/main560072.shtml

Let us know your thoughts on this...

Bryce

 

[vegita1220]

jaerose, I absolutely agree with you. They're Americans, and I consider myself American(well, I will once INS gets off their collective lazy asses and processes my stuff to give me citizenship) as well.

I was merely referring to them as Asian to show their ethnicity since the context of this conversation was discussing discrimination in the military against Asians/Asian-Americans. A conversational convenience, if you will.

 

[kawika109]

For example, while half of white service members believed investigations into racially offensive conduct were thorough, only 38 percent of blacks and 39 percent of Hispanics felt that way, according to the “Armed Forces Equal Opportunity Survey.”

Can anyone give some insight on this perticular belief? What could possibly be the reason invsetigations by organizations like Social Actions (I *think* that is what they are reffering to) would not be thorough?

 

[jaerose]

Well, IMHO, anyone who asks for an investigation, or has one take place on their behalf, would probably feel like the investigators could have done a better job...especially if the person's investigation did not turn out the results they wanted. For instance, if you think your boss is harrassing you and you get an investigation into the problem, but the investigator concludes that there was no harrassment, wouldn't you most likely feel like they didn't do a thorough job?

Vegita, I know you were doing out of convenience =) I was using it to make a point, not to suggest that you are personally responsible for ethnic divides in this country...or are you J/K. Good luck with INS!

JR

 

[kevin]

bysun: thanks for the article. wow...1 in 5 women sexually assaulted. that's really impressive coming from future united states military officers (and the "cream of the crop" considering how difficult it is to get into the academies). although im wondering what the change in cadre is going to do (more involvment with the cadets?). one would like to think that the kind of people wishing to serve as a us officer would not be inclined to take part in those activities to begin with. oh well.

 

[kawika109]

Just found another intresting statistic. In the Air Force 19.3% percent of the officers are pilots. However, only 7.8% of Asian American Air Force officers are pilots (only 73 total). What's the deal with this?

 

[vegita1220]

b/c most Asian-Americans are nerds...j/k

Prob all the video games they play in adolescence messes up their eyes? I'm honestly real lucky it doesn't seem to affect me at all.

Anyway, in my NROTC unit freshman class there's literally one Asian guy besides me, and one half asian guy...and neither of them are in it for wings...weird. On a side note...there are 4 girls in my class...and we've got a total of 21 ppl.

 

[phrogdriver]

Are we talking about racial or sexual discrimination here? Because the motivations and results are much different. The USAFA scandal is about rape and sexual assault, not discrimination, unless your thing is raping Asian-Americans!

 

[quickandsure]

Kawika109: I rest my case. Good luck on your decision.

 

[vegita1220]

grist i hope ure not basing the racism off my comments...b/c I'm Asian myself. I'm just poking fun at stereotypes.