No one asked for comments from the peanut gallery, especially from a smart ass like you!
But alas, the peanut gallery answered my question... And I do appreciate the sarcasm.
-
Please take a moment and update your account profile. If you have an updated account profile with basic information on why you are on Air Warriors it will help other people respond to your posts. How do you update your profile you ask?
Go here:
Edit Account Details and Profile
Looking for gouge? Ask your Stupid Questions about Naval Aviation here (Part 1)
- Thread starter Nose
- Start date
- Status
But alas, the peanut gallery answered my question... And I do appreciate the sarcasm.
On LAMPS ships (small decks) we also have LSOs. The LSE won't even be on deck when we land. The LSO provides last minute corrections to get the helo into the right spot to trap as well as runs the deck once Tower gives it to him. "LSO" stands for Landing Safety Officer, not Signal Officer, so it's a different job, although it sometimes does require talking someone down to the deck.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
1. Helos, no. Harriers, yes.
1a. V/STOL LSO for Harriers (commonly LSO or Paddles)
2. Grading is based on glideslope, lineup, closure, and landing spot. There are some V/STOL specific deviations/terms such as T=trundle, H=Hover, AS=abeam the spot, +=cross, LAFT=land aft, etc. Normal grading rules apply, except there are no bolters.
3. It depends on who's talking, and to whom. If I'm talking to a CV guy, then the LHD is "the little deck". If I'm talking to a helo guy, then the little deck is the LPD or equivelant. To a 60 guy, it means a FFG/DDG, etc. It's all relative. "Big Deck Gator" is a better term for the LHA/D if you're not sure.
Actually ... 719/s ...
Seriously, I've always "seen" 720 advertised for what is possibly the overall finest tactical jet that the USN (or anyone?) has ever fielded ... but I remember some guys "clocking" it and they claimed only @ 400-450(?)/s. I think the PCL or NATOPS used to limit you to two (2) continuous 360 rolls -- not positive about the ol' memory here -- the limit not because of structural restrictions but rather a concern for disorientation evolving out of "more" than 2 rolls ... again, not a problem, just got to keep your head (literally) and pay attention.
I never clocked it; just did it. I got a lot more than 400-450/s, I am quite certain. It'll bang your head. Watch out.
For you guys flying the T-2 -- here's a comparison: When you come into the BREAK @ warp-overdrive in the Attack Guppy, you have to almost take an initial "hand-head-fake" the other way w/ the stick to get any "pop" into your overhead break. Almost a "one potato-two-potato-grunt-grunt".
In Heineman's Hot-Rod -- same situation -- you just "think break" and that little delta wing thing of beauty is "popped". It's gone ....
This is a West-Coastism. East Coast cons internally with the AW calling corrections to get you over the trap.
We used to satisfy the inherent need for competition (that the greenie-board provides hookers) with a grease pencil tally on the LSO shack window. Tracked mis-traps, and the coveted "no-straightening-required" landing.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
And the associated "beer fines".. We settled up on each port call.
I think I charged a guy who did not do his 2P cruise on a RAST ship a case of Yuengling for putting the wheel in the trap on a calm day.
I think I charged a guy who did not do his 2P cruise on a RAST ship a case of Yuengling for putting the wheel in the trap on a calm day.
I partially disagree. My first cruise was all West coast guys, and we were all AW landers (in part because of EMCON). Second deployment, I had an East Coast OIC and once the "Ready to land" call was made, he didn't really want the AWs to talk, in part because they can't really see if they're following the rules on being strapped in and also because how NATOPS was worded (this was all non-EMCON). This wasn't hard and fast, and if the pilot needed it and the AW helped, it wasn't a big deal, but it was the general policy when he was flying. FWIW, he was also very reasonable, so it wasn't one rule of many where everyone just rolls their eyes. Plus he never did say "Deck" on the radio, which always sounded gay to me.
As for the "no-straightening required" landing...I was never so lucky. I've been close, but I was happy if I had a CENTER light and in the middle of the trap.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
Actually ... 719/s ...
Seriously, I've always "seen" 720 advertised for what is possibly the overall finest tactical jet that the USN (or anyone?) has ever fielded ... but I remember some guys "clocking" it and they claimed only @ 400-450(?)/s. I think the PCL or NATOPS used to limit you to two (2) continuous 360 rolls -- not positive about the ol' memory here -- the limit not because of structural restrictions but rather a concern for disorientation evolving out of "more" than 2 rolls ... again, not a problem, just got to keep your head (literally) and pay attention.
I never clocked it; just did it. I got a lot more than 400-450/s, I am quite certain. It'll bang your head. Watch out.
For you guys flying the T-2 -- here's a comparison: When you come into the BREAK @ warp-overdrive in the Attack Guppy, you have to almost take an initial "hand-head-fake" the other way w/ the stick to get any "pop" into your overhead break. Almost a "one potato-two-potato-grunt-grunt".
In Heineman's Hot-Rod -- same situation -- you just "think break" and that little delta wing thing of beauty is "popped". It's gone ....
The last thing that was said to me by the ODO before I went out to do my first solo in the TA-4J was:
ODO: "Now listen, I know that you've heard all about the 720 deg/sec roll rate and are just dying to get out there and see for yourself. Trust me......DON'T DO IT. You'll just scare the shit out of yourself, assuming you don't fuck it away and crash. Just don't do it."
Me: "Aye, aye, sir." (fully intending to to exactly what he said not to do)
Well, he was right. As soon as I got estabsihed in the MOA I went about 5 degrees nose up and slapped the stick as hard as I could to the left. What happenned next could only be described as terrifying, mind-bending, and ugly. When I finally got it stopped (after what seemed like 30 rolls but was probably only 3 or 4) I was nearly inverted and about 20 degrees nose low. I recovered and spent the next 5 or 10 minutes doing gentle circles just to stay in the area and trying to collect myself. I got it together and did what I was supposed to do (normal aerobatics and the like) for the rest of the flight and then came back and knocked out my landings.
When I came back into the ready room the ODO took one look at me and said:
ODO: "You did it didn't you."
Me: "Yes, sir"
ODO: "Scared the shit out you, didn't it?"
Me: "Yes, sir."
ODO "I told you not to do it. Did you think I was just kidding you? Everybody does that on their first solo. Dumbass."
Thus ended my learning that day.
I'm sure that somebody with several hundred hours could have done much better, but for a knucklehead with 20-30 hours (10 or so up front) it was too much to handle safely.
Thank God I didn't crash.
Good story. He probably should have said: "DO IT"!!
A textbook example of why telling teens TO HAVE premarital sex would probably prevent unwanted pregnancies.
We need to rethink our methods.
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
Good story. He probably should have said: "DO IT"!!
A textbook example of why telling teens TO HAVE premarital sex would probably prevent unwanted pregnancies.
We need to rethink our methods.
It's amazing how much smarter my parents (and old flight instructors) get,..... the older I get.
Some things you have to learn on your own, I guess. If you're lucky you won't get killed or ruin your life learning those lessons.
If you're really smart, you'll learn from others. But those of you that get that, are older than I am and know that already.
The ones that don't get that won't listen. After all, I'm just an old(er) guy that doesn't know what he's talking about. Right?
It's amazing how much smarter my parents (and old flight instructors) get,..... the older I get.
Some things you have to learn on your own, I guess. If you're lucky you won't get killed or ruin your life learning those lessons.
If you're really smart, you'll learn from others. But those of you that get that, are older than I am and know that already.
The ones that don't get that won't listen. After all, I'm just an old(er) guy that doesn't know what he's talking about. Right?
"When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."
Mark Twain Bringing Up Father
Steve
1. I'm assuming you mean our Devil Dog's and Coasties? Naval Aviators in the Navy do wear them, I can't speak for our compadres.
2. How do you mean "screw up"?
A. If you have a bad flight, to the point of unsat performance, then you will have your training jacket reviewed, you may have to go to a progress review board that can recommend to retain you in training or to attrite you, then you would go see the CO & possibly the Commodore for a final ruling. I believe CNATRA has the final stamp on any attrites, but I could be wrong.
B. If you mean screw up outside of training, i.e. staying the night with Johnny Law, then that is another track. Was it serious enough for the Navy to bring you up on charges? Your aviation career is probably done if so. Does whatever you were involved in show a lack of Character or poor decision making? You are probably out of flying then too.
The Navy pays a lot of money for your flight training. They do not want to attrite anyone if they don't have too, but you do have to be able to perform within the established syllabus. Go outside that framework, and all bets are off...
Harrier Dude
Living the dream
1. No. Just the navy. Marines and Coast Guard wear black shoes, but only spend the minimal possible time out of a flightsuit.
2. Any number of things depending on what he "screwed up". If he just failed flight school because he couldn't safely fly for whatever reason, he's sent to some other MOS school to do something else. Intel, Motor-T, DASC, Logistics.....something like that. If he "screwed up" in a legal or disciplinary way, he can get kicked out of the service. That's pretty rare.
2. Any number of things depending on what he "screwed up". If he just failed flight school because he couldn't safely fly for whatever reason, he's sent to some other MOS school to do something else. Intel, Motor-T, DASC, Logistics.....something like that. If he "screwed up" in a legal or disciplinary way, he can get kicked out of the service. That's pretty rare.
- Status