Looking for gouge? Ask your Stupid Questions about Naval Aviation here (Part 1)

[phrogpilot73]

Here's a new stupid question. Hornet deployments in the Marine Corps. How often are VMFA's embarked on carriers and for how long? Is it routine? I don't think I've ever done an exercise with Marine F18s where they were coming off of a boat.

Do Marine pilots ever do time as shooters or paddles?

Don't know all the answers to your questions, but I know that it's only VMFA's, not VMFA(AW)'s that deploy on the carrier. As to their deployment/dwell ratio - I don't know. But I do know that they're part of the CAG and are there for the whole deployment. Plus, there was that whole "TACAIR Integration" thingy...

 

[Uncle Fester]

Don't know specific numbers, but air wing composition (i.e., specific squadrons) is a lot more fluid now than it has been in many a moon; whereas once squadrons stayed in a particular CVW forever, it's much more plug-and-play now. Combination of reasons - demand for helo/Prowler sandbox deployments, wear-and-tear on the Charlie Hornets, demise of the Hoov, Tomcats trading in for Rhinos, etc etc. VMFAs on the Big Gray Boat have been rationalized many ways, but mostly it's because they need airplanes and aviators.

Nobody asked me, but I think it's a good idea. I know the Mahreens have a lot of heartburn with this concept, and not without good reasons, but I think there's good to be done both ways. Can't hurt to brush up on how the carrier Navy does things for when the big one goes off with the Chinamen - when we're doing more than just CAS again - and for the Navy folks to learn from the grunts how the grunts really do CAS - they're the brothers who know. There's an amazing amount of learning-by-osmosis that goes on when aviators from different backgrounds are together all the time. I think you learn more by bullshitting over sliders at midrats than you do at formal training or exercises.

 

[Flash]

Here's a new stupid question. Hornet deployments in the Marine Corps. How often are VMFA's embarked on carriers and for how long? Is it routine? I don't think I've ever done an exercise with Marine F18s where they were coming off of a boat.

Do Marine pilots ever do time as shooters or paddles?

For a few years before we started with the more fluid deployments that Fester talks about, there were 4 VMFA squadrons assigned to 4 different CVW's, one each. I believe they were permanently assigned, they were only A+ and C squadrons.

One of the proposals for the whole Marine/Navy Aviation integration plan was to assign on VMFA to each of the 10 CVW's. Whether or not that plan is still viable or if it died a quiet death, I have no idea. I believe the proposal was for it to be implemented when the F-35 came on-line. It also included 2 or 3 land-based VFA squadrons, they actually stood up one but I think it was decomm'd.

 

[usmarinemike]

So when the F-35 comes in, and the F18C's go away, then what role will Marine aviation play in carrier based aviation? Any? (...because we all know the Marine Corps isn't getting E/F's.)

 

[BigIron]

Do Marine pilots ever do time as shooters ...?

Nope. That's a job that belongs to the ship, not the airwing or Marines.

 

[Blutonski816]

So when the F-35 comes in, and the F18C's go away, then what role will Marine aviation play in carrier based aviation? Any? (...because we all know the Marine Corps isn't getting E/F's.)

IIRC, the corps will use the STOVL version to replace Harriers and may use the CV version for deployments on the boat to replace its Hornets...
Then again this is secondhand info that is ages old...

If I'm wrong then I think it'd be a shame to see the end of Marine tailhookers deploying on the boat... IMO it proves one of the great selling points of Naval Aviation in general... An Aviation element that can be employed from not only expeditionary airfields accessible to the area of operations but also a CV when an airfield is not in the cards... something that just can't be said of the AF...

 

[Harrier Dude]

IIRC, the corps will use the STOVL version to replace Harriers and may use the CV version for deployments on the boat to replace its Hornets...
Then again this is secondhand info that is ages old...

Not going to happen. The Marine Corps is going STOVL. Period. We could debate the merits of that all day long, but hat's like the Corps replacing the phrogs with 60s. Ain't gonna happen.

If I'm wrong then I think it'd be a shame to see the end of Marine tailhookers deploying on the boat... IMO it proves one of the great selling points of Naval Aviation in general... An Aviation element that can be employed from not only expeditionary airfields accessible to the area of operations but also a CV when an airfield is not in the cards... something that just can't be said of the AF...

We'll still deploy on the boat. Just probably not CVs. You still could, but it probably won't happen.

 

[Scoob]

So when the F-35 comes in, and the F18C's go away, then what role will Marine aviation play in carrier based aviation? Any? (...because we all know the Marine Corps isn't getting E/F's.)

Then who are we going to sell all those old, worn out E/F's to once the F-35 finally makes it off the showroom floor???......Iran???...or the world's largest pane of glass that once was???

 

[usmarinemike]

We'll still deploy on the boat. Just probably not CVs. You still could, but it probably won't happen.

Yes, I was just assuming that we'd do much more fixed wing from LHDs. How many Harriers do MEU's carry regularly lately? Is it still a division?

As was mentioned earlier, it seems that their are valuable qualities to having Marine aviators embarked on CVs that might be going away. Jointness takes a step back.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Yes, I was just assuming that we'd do much more fixed wing from LHDs. How many Harriers do MEU's carry regularly lately? Is it still a division?

Remember, the MEU is task oriented... Both of the MEU's I deployed on had 6xAV-8B's, although it can be more or less.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Yes, I was just assuming that we'd do much more fixed wing from LHDs. How many Harriers do MEU's carry regularly lately? Is it still a division?

As was mentioned earlier, it seems that their are valuable qualities to having Marine aviators embarked on CVs that might be going away. Jointness takes a step back.

Currently there are 6 per MEU, except for the 31st MEU, which has 8 at the moment. The plan is to have 10 F-35s, which will be an entire squadron. I don't think that there has been a final decision yet. Still too far off.

I'm going to a breif next week on F-35 issues with many of the heavies involved (program manager, etc) so maybe it'll come up again.

As to the "jointness" issue......I wouldn't stress over that. Our boats will always be driven by the navy. Besides, "Joint" means "The way the air force does it", so it doesn't really apply to CV ops anyway.

 

[Uncle Fester]

...Besides, "Joint" means "The way the air force does it"...

Gawd, some of you have no idea how true that is. If the AF writes a Joint pub, they mean, "we do it this way, so everyone else should too." If someone else writes a Joint pub, the AF goes, "Well, AF standards are more stringent and this doesn't apply to us anyway, so we're not going to do it and we want a waiver."

 

[Scoob]

Gawd, some of you have no idea how true that is. If the AF writes a Joint pub, they mean, "we do it this way, so everyone else should too." If someone else writes a Joint pub, the AF goes, "Well, AF standards are more stringent and this doesn't apply to us anyway, so we're not going to do it and we want a waiver."

If BRAC is any indicator, that stance ain't gonna fly much longer.

 

[whalepelt]

We'll still deploy on the boat. Just probably not CVs. You still could, but it probably won't happen.

So if the Marines are disappearing from the CV Air Wing, what does the Navy do to make up for the places they used to fill onboard? Just deploy squadrons more often by pulling them from other CVWs?

 

[a_m]

So if the Marines are disappearing from the CV Air Wing, what does the Navy do to make up for the places they used to fill onboard? Just deploy squadrons more often by pulling them from other CVWs?

crosses fingers for hookers and blow