Roger Ball, good and not-so-good questions about the world of "Paddles"

[kmac]

Do you mean w/ the MOVLAS light box set up starboard side, aft of the island ... ??? If so, no ... That would be tough in any aircraft, let alone side-by-side seated aircraft.

And I thought a regular ol' MOVLAS was an "Auto-Oke." How could you possibly not get an OK for trapping with station 3???

 

[nittany03]

And I thought a regular ol' MOVLAS was an "Auto-Oke." How could you possibly not get an OK for trapping with station 3???

By hitting the ramp? :icon_tong

 

[ea6bflyr]

A google search for "Clara Ball" carrier aviation only came up with a link to this thread.

That's the finest example of recursion I've ever seen!!

-ea6bflyr

 

[ea6bflyr]

And I thought a regular ol' MOVLAS was an "Auto-Oke." How could you possibly not get an OK for trapping with station 3???

By hitting the ramp? :icon_tong

or Bolter!!

-ea6bflyr

 

[A4sForever]

.....CLARA=Clarify my position as you could be CLARA low/high or something blocking the lens. Bottom line is you do not know where you are on glideslope and the LSO needs to know that to talk you aboard.

Actually --- a good LSO knows where you are and the LSO is going to talk you back onto centerline/glide slope so you can acquire or reacquire the BALL and continue to fly the pass w/ "Meatball, Lineup, Angle of Attack" ... like you were suppose to in the first place. The intent of the "CLARA" call by the pilot is not to initiate a full talk-down but rather to notify the LSO that the pilot cannot see the BALL at that point in time. It could be for any of a number of reasons --

I've called it because of smoke in the groove and/or low clouds passing across the final bearing -- couldn't see the BALL. I "knew" where I was -- no "clarification" required, I just couldn't SEE the ball -- makes it tough to get aboard. I've had the ball -- and called it -- lost it -- called CLARA -- reacquired the BALL again -- called it (again) -- and continued and trapped.

It's all in a day's (or night's) work.

Sometimes, usually occurring at night or in bad WX, the LSO will preempt CATCC if the progress of the pass appears to be AFU and call "PADDLES CONTACT" -- which means the LSO has control of the aircraft approach and will control the approach w/ verbal assist until the pilot can call the BALL.

And I'm not from Missouri, but I've got to be shown. In other words, I'm still not buying "CLARA" = "CLARIFY". Naval Aviators don't talk that ..... i.e., use faggoty words/concepts like "clarify" when driving down the groove towards a wire. It would/should be of "cooler" origin than that .... :icon_wink

Like I said: if you "know" the right answer, you know more than NAVAIR News or the Historical Center .... ... so do you ?? Go call 'em ... not "chiding" YOU, FLTPAY ... I just used your quote as the nearest, best example of what I was going to say. It's a "collective you" thing.

Say "ALOHA" to Pete for me, also.

... Roger Ball

 

[FLYTPAY]

Any of our Carrier Aviators on AW ever done a MOVLAS Station 3 recovery (RHS of LA)? I know on the Prowler (or A-6) it would be very uncomfortable and I have never experienced one....

I think they did it once on Kennedy 2004 cruise but I wasn't on that recovery if they did in fact do it. That would suck, might as well let the NFO fly the pass

Bottom line is you do not know where you are on glideslope and the LSO needs to know that to talk you aboard.

Lemme CLARAfy this. The LSO needs to know you do not know where you are in relationship to the desired glideslope.

Actually --- a good LSO knows where you are and the LSO is going to talk you back onto centerline/glide slope so you can acquire or reacquire the BALL and continue to fly the pass w/ "Meatball, Lineup, Angle of Attack" ...

So an average or dare I say bad paddles doesn't know where I am:icon_rage

 

[A4sForever]

Lemme CLARAfy this. The LSO needs to know you do not know where you are in relationship to the desired glideslope.

You're still fightin' this -- the LSO "knows" where you are -- a CLARA call (from the pilot, obviously) means the PILOT can't see the ball -- and should be able to as a result of a variety of circumstance. The LSO verbally takes over the pass and "flys" the PILOT back to where the PILOT can see/call the "BALL" and everything proceeds "normally" from thereon in to the wires ...

Again, I've called CLARA -- knew where I was "in relationship to the desired glideslope" -- but I couldn't see the BALL.

With the exception of night (w/ lots of WX on the final bearing mebbe) or the aircraft being pop-eye day/night --- the LSO will (should) know when an aircraft is so far off the desired path that the PILOT cannot acquire a BALL -- 'cause the LSO can see the aircraft's position. The LSO preempts and calls: "PADDLES CONTACT" and verbally gives commands to "fly" the PILOT back into the groove.

So an average or dare I say bad paddles doesn't know where I am:icon_rage

I don't know -- we didn't have any "bad LSO's" ... not too many average ones, either. We got rid of the "bad" ones early & often and the "average" ones never controlled the platform.

 

[Uncle Fester]

...we didn't have any "bad LSO's" ... not too many average ones, either. We got rid of the "bad" ones early & often and the "average" ones never controlled the platform.

That brings up something...how common is it nowadays to "de-Paddles" an LSO? Does it require a formal action, like a FNAEB? Does something bad have to happen or almost happen (e.g., wave a guy into the ramp one dark night) or is it just up to CAG and CAG Paddles' spidey sense?

Does it involve ceremonially stripping them of their Ray-Bans and float coats, then kicking them off the platform? Or are they just notified that their presence is no longer required?

 

[cosmania]

Some more CLARAfication

I've heard "Clara, Lineup" before which technically has nothing to do with glideslope, so there are other problems besides merely glideslope related Clara calls. I'm not sure it was the right call (I never made it), because if you have no AOA you don't call "Clara, AOA" you just make a "No AOA" call.

And A4's, I hate to say it, but I've had some bad LSO's before. There were clearly guys that had trouble with the MOVLAS and/or would talk too much to some of the pilots and it wasn't a one-time event, it was a trend. I had a good LSO actually admit he was wrong by giving me the OK 1 due to TMLSO, or course, he just had a bad day. That was nice to hear.

 

[A4sForever]

....And A4's, I hate to say it, but I've had some bad LSO's before. ..

I totally believe you -- like I said; we got rid of 'em "early & often". I can think of two that I personally shit-canned and several that I never "qualled". I benched the USMC "head LSO" in CUBI and took over 'cause he wasn't ready for prime time. A BIG shit-storm followed that one ...

I guess I'm lookin' at it from a different perspective. A guy had to take the pickle and wave to be judged "good/bad/ugly" by me or my compadres .... a.k.a. you were the recipient of their misdeeds, while I was the enforcer of their wavin' fate.

 

[cosmania]

Gitty Up

 

[A4sForever]

That brings up something...how common is it nowadays to "de-Paddles" an LSO?.....Does it involve ceremonially stripping them of their Ray-Bans and float coats, then kicking them off the platform? Or are they just notified that their presence is no longer required?

I don't know about today -- I would suppose it's a longer, more involved process as we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings and cover our OWN backsides to protect US from any collateral damage .... i.e., "Now tell me again, why was this guy qualified and waving under my command ... "??

In the 'ol days, it was simpler. But it wasn't an "instantaneous" process -- it developed over time on the platform or at the field and you gotta give the guy a chance to learn and progress as an LSO. Assuming the LSO-trainee or even full fledged LSO had progressed to where he could control a pass at the ship -- under supervision -- but the signs were all negative, the controlling LSO could simply say:

"Give me the pickle ... go below I'll talk to you [insert: in my stateroom or in the ready room] when the debriefs are done ..."

Game over.

 

[HeyJoe]

Let there be an LSO thread!

Here's a dumb question for those of us not Tailhook Navy (or Marine Corps)....

Actually, your "dumb question" sparked some good dialogue so it's time we created a place for Paddles to call their own, good questions and the other kind!

 

[Yank]

Training Question

Ok, dumb question: Bogey Spotter started this with a question about talk at the boat, so I assume that in his pipeline he has never had to come to the boat. Didn't all aviators at one time, regardless of pipeline, have to take a certain number of traps at some point in their training? Thanks.

 

[Uncle Fester]

Ok, dumb question: Bogey Spotter started this with a question about talk at the boat, so I assume that in his pipeline he has never had to come to the boat. Didn't all aviators at one time, regardless of pipeline, have to take a certain number of traps at some point in their training? Thanks.

Back in the day of the mighty T-28, yes. Now, not so much.