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Roger Ball, good and not-so-good questions about the world of "Paddles"

Alpha_Echo_606

Does not play well with others!™
Contributor
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100630-N-6003P-072 U.S. 5TH FLEET AREA OF RESPONSIBILITY (June 30, 2010) Marine Capt. Justin Wortendyke, a landing signals officer (LSO), assigned to the Checkerboards of Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA) 312, watches an F/A-18F Super Hornet assigned to the Swordsmen of Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 32 land aboard the aircraft carrier USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75). Harry S. Truman is deployed as part of the Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group supporting maritime security operations and theater security cooperation efforts. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Kilho Park/Released)
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
Catmando said:
Well in my case, I had a touch of coprolalia. :D :D ;)
Ah, yes ... the Renaissance Man's Tourette Syndrome ... :D :D

If you'd hear an 'open mic' from the PLATFORM, you might have lost control and 'stopped flying' for 2 seconds !!!
;)
 

Alpha_Echo_606

Does not play well with others!™
Contributor
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100712-N-7317W-009 5th FLEET AREA OF RESPONSIBILITY (July 12, 2010) Landing signals officers (LSO) aboard the aircraft carrier USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75) wait for another aircraft to enter the landing pattern. LSOs are responsible for guiding aircraft on final approach for landing and evaluating each landing on board the ship. Harry S. Truman is deployed as part of the Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group in support of maritime security operations and theater security cooperation efforts in the U.S. 5th Fleet area of responsibility. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Matthew Williams/Released)
 

Alpha_Echo_606

Does not play well with others!™
Contributor
Former President George H.W. Bush helps out on the LSO platform.

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100714-N-3885H-208 ATLANTIC OCEAN (July 14, 2010) Former President George H.W. Bush watches flight operations from the landing signal officer's platform aboard the aircraft carrier that bears his name, USS George H.W. Bush (CVN 77). Bush and his wife, Barbara, spent their time aboard watching flight operations, touring the ship and visiting the crew. George H.W. Bush is conducting training in the Atlantic Ocean. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 3rd Class Nicholas Hall/Released)

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HAL Pilot

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Perhaps the LSO could get a better idea of how the pilot is flying based on the hysteria....er.....tone......of the NFO's voice? :icon_smil
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
Brett327 said:
Half the time, the LSOs have their heads up their asses anyway,

I've known the CAG paddles in both (all two) of your airwings. I disagree whole heartedly with this assessment. I also hope that you keep this opinion to yourself in the real world. This is the kind of thing that would cause me to come up and say "your welcome" every time I waved your pilot aboard - Every time until someone asked why I was doing it and then I would share your sentiments about my capabilities.

Brett, not questioning or doubting your professionalism or capabilities as a 1320, you've been recognized as one of the better ones in the community, however, you're WAY OFF here, way off. Yet, if you really feel this way, AW is not the forum to air this concern. This concern should be brought up through your chain of command. Saying your airwing paddles are that screwed up is a serious indictment that has a lot of safety concerns. Shit or get off the pot.

Further, allowing the JO's in your ready room to see senior folks completely dismiss changes that were made to NATOPS is horrendous. We can't let our younger guys think that when a "shall" shows up in NATOPS that we don't have to adhere to it if we don't like how it got there. Can't pick and choose what parts to follow. Unfortunately, the vitriolic, emotional and immature responses showed the real colors of a lot of our communities leaders - insecure. For the record, my concerns with the change had more to do with the method and very very little to do with the message. Those concerns were expressed to the appropriate people so they could respond - instead of making inflammatory posts on a message board.

By the way, like those good looking studs in the pictures with 41? He was awesome. Asked me "when do I say 'cut, cut, cut?" :)
 

ProwlerPilot

Registered User
pilot
I acknowledge showing up late to this party, but being part of the process and a CAG paddles presently, I find it amazing the uproar this change has caused. The issue is resolved and will fall to the managers of each community to determine how they proceed. This entire discussion began based on poor crew coordination and critical misinformation being given to the LSO's by WSO's who called the ball. The intent was to remove the "middle man" in order to create a more efficient and accurate flow of information. Does an NFO making the ball call allow a pilot to concentrate on flying more, sure. Is it impossible for a pilot to do it? No. We just had a HUGE change to everyone's thinking WRT going to mil at the tension signal. We now wait until everyone is clear and then go to mil. Huge mind shift that amounted to no problem at all implementing. Pilots can talk and fly at the same time. BUT, if crew coordination is good, then NFO is making the CORRECT call, and everything is done professionally and accurately, it is a help to have one less thing to think about at 3/4 mile. As another paddles put it, "we do it because we can. (ie task sharing to lessen the load)"

Regardless, this was proposed as an improvment on safety procedures, and recieved by many as an affront on the NFO race. This is unfortunate and I believe a conflict that will always rage with some.

As for the comments about LSO's not knowing what is going on half of the time, I couldn't agree more with 129 paddles. That is a very poisonous and dangerous sentiment to put out and one that will do nothing but undermine the credibility of a person out the trying to ensure every pilot and NFO comes back from cruise. The second faith is lost in paddles, seriously dangerous situations develop. In reality as an aircrew you do not have all of the information that I do. You don't know the deck status, how the pitch or roll of the ship has been acting, what the winds are doing, etc. You know meatball, linueup and angle of attack. You take care of that, and I will keep you safe from the rest of the variables. I've given and seen power calls when guys are clara high and watched the plane slam down in front of the 1 wire. Completely contrary to what a pilot clara high might think he needs, but obvious by the result of his landing. At the end of the day, the sentiment that paddles doesn't know what is going on comes from those who are struggling or worried about grades. As CAG paddles, I honestly don't care who top hook is, only that you cleared the ramp and recovered safely.


Bush 41 looks good on the pickle. How many Presidential upgrades did he give?!
 

MIDNJAC

is clara ship
pilot
We just had a HUGE change to everyone's thinking WRT going to mil at the tension signal. We now wait until everyone is clear and then go to mil. Huge mind shift that amounted to no problem at all implementing.

Minor threadjack here, but I was part of the first TW-1 boat det to use the new (above) procedure. Wondering what the back story to it is?
 

Recovering LSO

Suck Less
pilot
Contributor
Minor threadjack here, but I was part of the first TW-1 boat det to use the new (above) procedure. Wondering what the back story to it is?

Goes back to older boats, specifically Kitty, that are no longer in service. Kittyhawk did not have some important interlocks that Nimitz class boats possess. These interlocks make early fires physically impossible (theoretically). Early in Kitty's tenure many pilots were sent off the pointy end before they were ready/expecting the shot. As a real time ORM measure they decided collectively that when given the "take tension" signal from Top Side Petty Officer that they would go to mil power. See, this most recent change isn't really a change at all. You were always supposed to wait for green lights (mil power), amber lights (combat/burner), and/or the run up signal from the shooter. The signal from the TSPO is just the indication that the catapult is in tension and tells the 18 year old kid to check that the launch bar is properly seated. Again though, guys on Kittyhawk began going to full power at the signal from the TSPO, this eventually permeated the whole fleet and just became "the way". When Kitty went away a reexamination of catapult procedures was initiated and it was decided that "the way" was putting the 18 year old kid at undue risk. The change was really just a way of getting back to the way it was always intended to work.

Any shooters here, please correct any inaccuracies or misspeaks, but I think this is fairly accurate.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I've known the CAG paddles in both (all two) of your airwings. I disagree whole heartedly with this assessment. I also hope that you keep this opinion to yourself in the real world. This is the kind of thing that would cause me to come up and say "your welcome" every time I waved your pilot aboard - Every time until someone asked why I was doing it and then I would share your sentiments about my capabilities.

Trust me, it's been addressed in the open and through proper channels. They're young, they're learning - enough said.

Brett
 

Lazergazer

New Member
Okay, well, not being an aviator but just someone incredibly interested in all the cool stuff you all do, I have a couple questions that have absolutely nothing to do with the last few pages of posts.

The first is, do LSOs have other billets they fill on cruise? Like, are they Ops officers or training officers, etc, also? Or is their sole billet to be an LSO?

The second bunch of questions are more general naval aviation related. I know there are department heads in every squadron, Maintenance, Ops, etc. What are all the other billets filled? Training, Legal, Q/A etc? Which ones are given to, say, 1st sea tour guys (uh, and girls) and which ones to more senior aviators (2nd cruise, 3rd cruise)? How many pilots are usually assigned to a squadron in each of the platforms, Helos, Hornets, Prowlers, Hawkeyes?

Sorry, a lot of questions.

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to reply.
 
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