Scariest Day/Night Flying

[Gatordev]

But I agree with your OP. If I ask "where are they at?" And I hear "Uh....." hmm.... ok, KIO! My favorite response was "Yeah, sir.. I've got them on BFT".... wait.. WHAT??

Technically, wouldn't it be TERMINATE?

 

[KBayDog]

Technically, wouldn't it be TERMINATE?

KIO is the correct term when Otto is in your flight.

 

[phrogdriver]

well my dad was a crew chief on the UH-1 bell 212 in the United States Marines Crops HML-267 and he always tells me stories about what he did. He told me that he was flying to south Korea against strong wind and they had to do an emergency landing at an unscheduled air field because one of the helicopters was out of fuel from flying agaisnt the wind. So they landed and the South Koreans thought that they were North Korean spys because they fly the same aircraft and they pointed AK's at them and orderd them out of thieir aircraft and told them to lie face down at gun point untill they had confromation that they were not North Korean spys.

Didn't you tell the exact same story two years ago under a different username? Either your dad's telling a big fish story or you are, because I guarantee you the North Koreans don't fly Hueys.

 

[phrogdriver]

That shit scares me. It happened once that I asked "where is -2" and got a "uhhh....hold on". From then on...I said in my briefs 3,4,5 times..."if I ask you where -2 is...I want zero hestitation. It's your job to ALWAYS know where that aircraft is. I don't care how many times we have to call terminate - if you don't see that aircraft you BETTER speak up". *chills*

You flying combat spread? What are you doing in a 60 where you 1) lose sight and 2) have to terminate for it?

 

[Treetop Flyer]

Yeah why would it even matter if lead can't see the guy flying off of him?

 

[Pags]

You flying combat spread? What are you doing in a 60 where you 1) lose sight and 2) have to terminate for it?

I'm guessing it was a Level 2 tacform flight. Junior aircrew doing your lookout for you. The terminate was probably for a botched position or someone not making the right calls.

 

[phrogdriver]

I'm guessing it was a Level 2 tacform flight. Junior aircrew doing your lookout for you. The terminate was probably for a botched position or someone not making the right calls.

That's what I figured. I'm just trying to figure what helo TACFORM maneuver would have someone get "chills" from going blind on -2. Crossturn?

 

[fc2spyguy]

That's what I figured. I'm just trying to figure what helo TACFORM maneuver would have someone get "chills" from going blind on -2. Crossturn?

First night form flight, break turn wings are on the bird. Crewman calls blind on -2 just as the HAC calls rollout. Couldn't understand crap on the ics held the turn in. -2 rolled out and saw them going under my chin bubble. That was less than fun.

 

[Pags]

That's what I figured. I'm just trying to figure what helo TACFORM maneuver would have someone get "chills" from going blind on -2. Crossturn?

Chills might be a bit of an exaggeration, but it's the thought that your nugget gunner might not have the SA you want him to.

I had a near mid-air on an admin rejoin as I (as lead) was executing an unannounced standard rate turn. Dash two was trying to rejoin and didn't pick up my turn until too late and then tried to turn harder to stay inside (2P was PAC). -2's HAC finally realized what was happening, pulled an arm full of collective and overran us. My crew was blind until I saw -2 in my greenhouse.

 

[hscs]

all the more reason that we RW types only need to do check and break turns.....

 

[Pags]

all the more reason that we RW types only need to do check and break turns.....

snark or some sort of story to this?

 

[MIDNJAC]

Calling a terminate for bad tacform? Since A4's isn't around to say it....."I weep...."

 

[hscs]

The story - well, we spend hours upon hours in the tac syllabus teaching it, coming up with our own scary stories (and luckily no mishaps) to run through maneuvers that have little value in an actual combat scenario. Dash 2 should know where he needs to be from your brief and put his aircraft there. Enough said. Things also get more complicated when you have more than 2 aircraft in a formation. Finally, good luck making any of those radio calls with chatter on multiple radios and potential jamming. The time is better spent nav'ing sans GPS and practicing form landings.

 

[Gatordev]

Calling a terminate for bad tacform? Since A4's isn't around to say it....."I weep...."

It's different. Helo Tacform is not better or worse than Tacair, but to say "you weep" when you don't understand the limitations of some of the maneuvers is ignorant. We can't see anywhere near as well as pointy-nose aircraft. Each pilot can really only see 90-120 degrees (at best, much less on goggles) and even parts of that are blocked by random aircraft parts.

Now, why we actually practice the maneuvers (on the Navy side) is a whole other issue. I'm with hscs on this one. There's way too much focus on all the various maneuvers and not enough on how to actually use a couple of them optimally.

 

[MasterBates]

What Gator said.. Doing essentially a souped up version of the Primary T-34 parade sequence, is dumb.

Form sequence flights are great for teaching the basics, and getting all the maneuvers done in one flight. BUT, the key is to get the fuck in position, stay in a position that is tactically sound, and NOT HIT THE OTHER PLANE.

Being able to do the SWTP TACFORM sequence in your sleep does not a good form pilot make.