Space Force Officer Relieved After Denouncing CRT/Marxism

[Griz882]

Why do people get triggered about CRT? Legit question, I don't have a full understanding of the concept.

It is a retrograde idea. The concept is basically the most simplistic elements of Darwinism wrapped in a cheap form of neo-socialism.

 

[Brett327]

Pro-Marxist literature shouldn't be part of the CNO's reading list.

I suppose for this to be a useful discussion, it would be helpful for you to cite a passage from the book in question that espouses Marxism so that we can assess the veracity of your claim that it is potentially harmful.

 

[wink]

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it partisan. This stuff has been around for decades, through Dem and GOP admins. There’s a difference between political (read controversial), and partisan.

At any rate, I’m not sure how getting the military to be more representative of the country’s demographic makeup has to be political.

I absolutely did not mean "political" as controversial. If your "read" it that way you misunderstood. I meant tit as Funk and Wagnal does. That it happens to be controversial is not solely due to the fact it has political goals. And whether I like it or not does not make it controversial, but if enough people don't like it, and feel like a debate is needed to highlight the less desirable goals, tactics, philosophies, etc, then it becomes controversial. THAT conversation is democracy in action. Any program, philosophy, training, or education that stifles that conversation by labeling alternative debate is not democratic. It is also not scientific. As this stuff is considered social science, promoters should welcome the challanges. But they don't, because the goal isn't a better understanding of their theories and initiatives or independent validation, it is political change.

 

[Brett327]

debate is needed to highlight the less desirable goals, tactics, philosophies, etc, then it becomes controversial. THAT conversation is democracy in action.

By all means, let’s have that debate, but that’s not what is happening. We have people labeling content that they probably haven’t even read as “dangerous Marxist propaganda,” which isn’t helpful. This is why I’ve asked Mirage to provide us with specific passages to evaluate.

 

[wink]

By all means, let’s have that debate, but that’s not what is happening. We have people labeling content that they probably haven’t even read as “dangerous Marxist propaganda,” which isn’t helpful. This is why I’ve asked Mirage to provide us with specific passages to evaluate.

Well enough. I wasn't talking about specific books. The original comment was about the political goals of the most well known contemporary racial theories and much of the diversity training/education industry.

 

[Brett327]

Well enough. I wasn't talking about specific books. The original comment was about the political goals of the most well known contemporary racial theories and much of the diversity training/education industry.

I understand, but this entire discussion centers on the claim that a book, supposedly about CRT, on the CNO’s reading list is evidence that the entire military has become woke and probably Marxist and that our Sailors are at risk of forming little Marxist communes on the mess decks, and other highly subversive activities.

 

[taxi1]

I understand, but this entire discussion centers on the claim that a book, supposedly about CRT, on the CNO’s reading list is evidence that the entire military has become woke and probably Marxist and that our Sailors are at risk of forming little Marxist communes on the mess decks, and other highly subversive activities.

There's 76 books on the list, including the MCPON's list. Maybe one Marxist?

It's balanced by one that is Fascist (Starship Troopers).

 

[Mirage]

I suppose for this to be a useful discussion, it would be helpful for you to cite a passage from the book in question that espouses Marxism so that we can assess the veracity of your claim that it is potentially harmful.

I understand, but this entire discussion centers on the claim that a book, supposedly about CRT, on the CNO’s reading list is evidence that the entire military has become woke and probably Marxist and that our Sailors are at risk of forming little Marxist communes on the mess decks, and other highly subversive activities.

You really are trolling me, right?

I posted several quotes from the book already. Ones that say capitalism is racist and racism is capitalist. I.e., only capitalist societies are racist and all capitalist societies are racist. The logical conclusion then is that we must rid ourselves of capitalism.

I never made anything close to the ridiculous arguments you're putting in my mouth. But if you can't argue with my actual points, you create a straw man to destroy. Same tactic I see you use over and over again. I'm tired of repeating myself.

 

[Sonog]

You really are trolling me, right?

I posted several quotes from the book already. Ones that say capitalism is racist and racism is capitalist. I.e., only capitalist societies are racist and all capitalist societies are racist. The logical conclusion then is that we must rid ourselves of capitalism.

I never made anything close to the ridiculous arguments you're putting in my mouth. But if you can't argue with my actual points, you create a straw man to destroy. Same tactic I see you use over and over again. I'm tired of repeating myself.

Does it actually say only capitalist societies are racist?

 

[Mirage]

One of the books, "How to Be and Antiracist", which is on the "foundational" list for sailors to read, contains the following quotes:
"Capitalism is essentially racist."
"Racism is essentially capitalist."
"The only remedy to racist discrimination is antiracist discrimination. The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination."
"There is no such thing as a not-racist idea," only "racist ideas and antiracist ideas."

Here's the quotes from the book from my previous post. Here's another: "Racism has spread to nearly every arm of the body politic." He even argues things like the threat of nuclear war, arms races, and climate change are all racist. He said in an interview that if you oppose the raising of the capital gains tax then you're a racist.

If you have a different interpretation of saying racism is essentially capitalist, I'm all ears.

 

[Sonog]

Here's the quotes from the book from my previous post.

If you have a different interpretation of saying racism is essentially capitalist, I'm all ears.

I don't see that as excluding other systems. Just that our system is a little fucked up. As much as I hate mediocrity, I also hate American exceptionalism. I don't know why we can't look at our country like a mission, and treat any criticism like we would in a debrief.

 

[Python]

I don't see that as excluding other systems. Just that our system is a little fucked up. As much as I hate mediocrity, I also hate American exceptionalism. I don't know why we can't look at our country like a mission, and treat any criticism like we would in a debrief.

The problem is beyond just the quotes in the book. The book is based on and endorses CRT. This presupposes the nation was founded on racism, is in our DNA, and that every interaction that ever happens has a racist component (not exaggerating). It explicitly endorses judging people based on skin color first and foremost, as well as endorses present and future discrimination to rectify past discrimination.

I am in total concurrence with your debrief idea. The US has done some shitty things. Some people today are affected by that. There are current issues that require reform. Nobody denies this. What does not need to happen is a total reinvention of our society (which CRT proposes), and the poisoning of impressionable minds with the Marxist reductionist idea that there are only oppressors and the oppressed.

After a debrief you take away learning points. You don’t say that the entire NAE is wrong and that you were oppressed by your IP.

 

[Brett327]

You really are trolling me, right?

I posted several quotes from the book already. Ones that say capitalism is racist and racism is capitalist. I.e., only capitalist societies are racist and all capitalist societies are racist. The logical conclusion then is that we must rid ourselves of capitalism.

I never made anything close to the ridiculous arguments you're putting in my mouth. But if you can't argue with my actual points, you create a straw man to destroy. Same tactic I see you use over and over again. I'm tired of repeating myself.

I haven’t read those yet, but I will. Meanwhile don’t get all excited when I poke fun. I know you mean well, but this all strikes me as very Chicken Little.

 

[Brett327]

You don’t say that the entire NAE is wrong and that you were oppressed by your IP.

Though one could definitely get that impression from reading some of the posts on this site. ?

 

[Brett327]

The problem is beyond just the quotes in the book. The book is based on and endorses CRT.

Again, I’m still not understanding why being exposed to CRT poses any risk to anyone. From my own perspective, knowing that some people I interact with may subscribe to the ideas in CRT helps me communicate with them more effectively, and ultimately be a better leader, which is presumably why the CNO put it on the list in the first place. Some of you are acting like this book will now be the basis for OPNAV policy, again, silly.

I reject the radicalization argument as well. The internet is full of CRT content. If someone wants to dive down that rabbit hole, they hardly need the CNOs list as a springboard.