Story: Pilots grounded for good after low flyover

[NAVYBM2]

Precisely. More often than not as an officer, you get to toe the line and keep your opinions to yourself. At any rate, what's your beef with the outcome for these aviators? I don't get the outrage.

Brett

Oh, no beef.
I just don't want to see good pilots loosing their wings over something like this. People work so hard to get them and then to have them taken away is just not right. Sure, ground them for a while, but don't strip them of their wings permanently! If that were to happen to me it would be the end of my life. I am just trying to put myself in their shoes, that is all.

 

[Gatordev]

Oh, no beef.
I just don't want to see good pilots loosing their wings over something like this. People work so hard to get them and then to have them taken away is just not right. Sure, ground them for a while, but don't strip them of their wings permanently! If that were to happen to me it would be the end of my life. I am just trying to put myself in their shoes, that is all.

If you're nozzles are below the press box and then you lie about it, what makes anyone want to trust you with weapons? I think 1000'/250 knots (or 500'/~90knots for helos) is stupid, but when you see what people do (ie, what they ignore) when those are the rules, it's hard to defend lowering them, even if it WASN'T a moot point, since these are also FAA rules.

 

[Brett327]

Oh, no beef.
I just don't want to see good pilots loosing their wings over something like this. People work so hard to get them and then to have them taken away is just not right. Sure, ground them for a while, but don't strip them of their wings permanently! If that were to happen to me it would be the end of my life. I am just trying to put myself in their shoes, that is all.

"Good" pilots don't break the rules, then lie to the Air Boss about it. They knew the potential consequences going in when they made a poor decision to violate established procedures. There is no defense for that, but you seem to believe that they're getting screwed somehow. That is what I don't understand. Again, back to the maturity thing - being responsible for one's own actions.

Brett

 

[nittany03]

If you're nozzles are below the press box and then you lie about it, what makes anyone want to trust you with weapons? I think 1000'/250 knots (or 500'/~90knots for helos) is stupid, but when you see what people do (ie, what they ignore) when those are the rules, it's hard to defend lowering them, even if it WASN'T a moot point, since these are also FAA rules.

+1. The military is full of stupid rules. We have to follow them and try to get them changed within channels. And there's no such thing as "civil disobedience" here that doesn't result in someone powerful laying the smack down. It's the nature of the beast. Things in the military only have to make sense to one person. That one person doesn't have to be you.

The OPNAVINST governing FNAEBs says that wings will be pulled for "bringing disgrace on Naval Aviation" or "willfully violating rules and regulations." No waiver for stupid rules and regulations. Like it or not, that's the CNO's policy.

 

[RadicalDude]

Stupid question: When you "lose your wings" do you literally lose the right to wear them? Or does it mean you're just no longer allowed to fly?

 

[MakeNoise]

Stupid question: When you "lose your wings" do you literally lose the right to wear them? Or does it mean you're just no longer allowed to fly?

First: There are no stupid questions. Only stupid people that ask questions

There are different levels of FNAEB (and I don't know them all exactly), but you can:

Lose wings and flying status.

Keep wings and lose flying status.

Keep wings and flying status.

And the new one, made up just for these 2 guys: Keep wings and only fly UAVs.

 

[MakeNoise]

BTW, how do I get some wings under my avatar?

 

[Clux4]

That's why I started it with "if I remember correctly." I didn't. But then again, you've probably discussed that mishap in detail in SuppO school, didn't you?

Notice I never said anything about the mishap. I also never claimed to have gotten the CRM brief. No we don't discuss those kinds of things at SuppO school. We discuss personal effects accountability and custody which is usually the next step after such tragic events.

He knows a hell of a lot more about aviation than you.

Don't you have some toilet paper rolls to count?

Actually counting TP rolls would be his PRIMARY MOS. Lord knows what he's doing at his B-Billet...

I am sure there is a contractor as Base G4 that handles that.
B billet at HQMC. Just another slave to the big green machine.

 

[Flash]

"Good" pilots don't break the rules, then lie to the Air Boss about it.

And that is probably the key point, they tried to lie their way out of it and that shows a lot more about their professionalism, or lack thereof, than anything else.

There are different levels of FNAEB (and I don't know them all exactly), but you can:

Lose wings and flying status.

Keep wings and lose flying status.

Keep wings and flying status.

And the new one, made up just for these 2 guys: Keep wings and only fly UAVs.

Another is keep your wings but be restricted to certain platforms, I know a gal who was restricted from flying Tacair but could fly P-3's.

 

[scoolbubba]

Another is keep your wings but be restricted to certain platforms, I know a gal who was restricted from flying Tacair but could fly P-3's.

Damn, that sounds eerily like selection day, circa may 2008!

 

[nittany03]

Lose wings and flying status.

This is code B(2). What I said above applies, because this is your wings literally getting pulled.

Keep wings and lose flying status.

This is code B(1). You didn't screw up badly enough or blatantly enough to get B(2).

Keep wings and flying status.

This is split into three code "A"s. A(1) is immediate return to full flight status. A(3) is transition to a new aircraft, be it P-3, helo, E-6, whatever. A(4) is probation. You're on flight status if and only if you complete certain requirements, which I think are case-by-case. TYCOM has the hammer on A(1) and A(4). BUPERS has to ok the others as it involves moving people around communities.

 

[squorch2]

A(4) has a fallback B if you fail probation, right?

 

[MAKE VAPES]

What happens at Bravo Field when "oneupsmanship" gets taken toooooooooooooooooo far stays at Bravo Field, even if it was captured on 5 students at the hold short's hud tapes.... What happens in DOWNTOWN ATLANTA does not.

If you have a single anchor and say you haven't broken a rule EVER, you are an outright liar. If you speak authoritativelly about not doing it with two anchors, you never had the capability to. (know its nice to be all "professional" here, but being real gets points as well.)

Part of finding where the "line" is involves stepping over just a little bit. Only an Air SWO wouldn't do it.

These dudes couldn't find the line because it was in the next state behind em.

 

[xmid]

A(3) is transition to a new aircraft, be it P-3, helo, E-6, whatever.

How is this not degrading to those who don't fly Hornets? We always here the "every platform is equal in their own right card", but what are they saying when you can be attrited from the jet advanced pipeline and are sent helo's (and was subsequently attrited from Helo's), or FNAEB'ed out of VFA and sent P-3's/Helo's.

 

[wlawr005]

How is this not degrading to those who don't fly Hornets? We always here the "every platform is equal in their own right card", but what are they saying when you can be attrited from the jet advanced pipeline and are sent helo's (and was subsequently attrited from Helo's), or FNAEB'ed out of VFA and sent P-3's/Helo's.

It's saying there is only one set of sticks in a fighter. The other platforms are "crew concept"...AKA there's another single-anchor type to keep our first guy from doing something stupid.

It does not however make any suggestion that jet pilots are better...