Stupid Questions about Naval Aviation (Part 3)

[MasterBates]

And the sad part. Top Dome is oh, about 30 feet from SWTI. It would not be that hard to get a hold of a HSL/HSM and HS/HSC guy who knows the capes/lims and tactics to sanity check what you are putting in your program.

When I needed to brief CSAR for training, I brought in a SWTI who had flown with -84. I was the local expert in all things helo, but CSAR wasn't really HSL's gig.. Open water SAR, yeah. Overland CSAR, not so much.

 

[e6bflyer]

boards for 2P, PC, CAPC and FCP.

Holy cow! I thought we were ate up in VQ land. We only have 2 boards, 1 for AC and 1 for MC.
All of our ACs are FCPs though, so I guess that one is kind of wrapped up together since we cover it in the AC board.

 

[scoolbubba]

2P and PPC, and some squadrons do MC boards.

Nav boards, systems board, and TACCO.

 

[MasterBates]

The best I can explain it was, your CAPC board could be your PC board, but your PC board wasn't your CAPC board.

PC - Plane Commander.. Aircraft commander, shore only.
CAPC- PC off boat.

 

[e6bflyer]

I think our boards are mainly a product of the amount of autonomy that we give our JOs on the road and enforcing the requisite knowledge to possess that autonomy. It is not a rare thing for a newly qualified O-3 AC/MC to be handed the keys and take an aircraft and crew overseas with the mentality that they need to get the mission done and get back safely. Other than a couple of "on deck safe" calls back home, there is literally no contact and the skipper/xo get nothing but a cursory brief in the morning M-F on what is happening on the road.
I was very surprised when I showed up to the VTs and went on cross country and guys were like "wow, this is awesome being handed the keys to the airplane and allowed to take it out for a weekend with a student." It was pretty much what I had been doing for the last year or so with the E-6.
I am not saying it is good or bad, just a different way of doing business. I think it is partially a product of always being on det 365/24 and partially a product of being so far from the tip of the spear that we can't even see the shaft.

 

[cfam]

I don't think anybody in TACAIR does boards for anything. At least I've never seen one aside from FFPBs.

We do mission cdr boards prior to being eligible for our LVL III stan check, but that's the only one I've seen.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I think our boards are mainly a product of the amount of autonomy that we give our JOs on the road and enforcing the requisite knowledge to possess that autonomy.

Eons ago when I was in VP, this is why we had so many boards. I flew around the Persian Gulf in 1988 as a LT with an armed plane and ROE as a Det OIC with the CO out of touch back on Dodge. It was really important to know what to do and what not to do - and how to decide if you were going to shoot or not when you had a CG O-6 CO yelling at you "God Damn it! I said shoot! That's an order Lieutenant!" when your ROE said don't shoot.

 

[BusyBee604]

It was really important to know what to do and what not to do - and how to decide if you were going to shoot or not when you had a CG O-6 CO yelling at you "God Damn it! I said shoot! That's an order Lieutenant!" when your ROE said don't shoot.

Knowing you Hal, I'd love to have been a 'fly on his bulkhead', when you told the shoe 0-6 where he could cram his wrongful "shoot" order!
BzB

 

[Brett327]

I think our boards are mainly a product of the amount of autonomy that we give our JOs on the road and enforcing the requisite knowledge to possess that autonomy. It is not a rare thing for a newly qualified O-3 AC/MC to be handed the keys and take an aircraft and crew overseas with the mentality that they need to get the mission done and get back safely. Other than a couple of "on deck safe" calls back home, there is literally no contact and the skipper/xo get nothing but a cursory brief in the morning M-F on what is happening on the road.
I was very surprised when I showed up to the VTs and went on cross country and guys were like "wow, this is awesome being handed the keys to the airplane and allowed to take it out for a weekend with a student." It was pretty much what I had been doing for the last year or so with the E-6.
I am not saying it is good or bad, just a different way of doing business. I think it is partially a product of always being on det 365/24 and partially a product of being so far from the tip of the spear that we can't even see the shaft.

I would say that's pretty standard in the TACAIR world.

 

[Brett327]

Eons ago when I was in VP, this is why we had so many boards. I flew around the Persian Gulf in 1988 as a LT with an armed plane and ROE as a Det OIC with the CO out of touch back on Dodge. It was really important to know what to do and what not to do - and how to decide if you were going to shoot or not when you had a CG O-6 CO yelling at you "God Damn it! I said shoot! That's an order Lieutenant!" when your ROE said don't shoot.

Which begs the question... What, exactly, were you supposed to be shooting at and how did he know you were a Lieutenant?

 

[HAL Pilot]

Knowing you Hal, I'd love to have been a 'fly on his bulkhead', when you told the shoe 0-6 where he could cram his wrongful "shoot" order!
BzB

USS Vincennes. Shortly afterward he shot down an Airbus...

 

[HAL Pilot]

Which begs the question... What, exactly, were you supposed to be shooting at?

Iranian Boghammers with Rockeye. So maybe it was "I said drop!" We also had Harpoons but those were no good against fiberglass.

 

[Alpha_Echo_606]

USS Vincennes. Shortly afterward he shot down an Airbus...

I recall much from this incident, the USS Forrestal was on station during the shoot down.

 

[helolumpy]

Eons ago when I was in VP, this is why we had so many boards.

Or it could be that if there are two ways to do something and one was is easy and makes sense, VP will always choose door number 2.

 

[e6bflyer]

I would say that's pretty standard in the TACAIR world.

Not calling you a liar, Brett, but the majority of "alone and unafraid" situations that I saw unfold while I was on Lincoln were the direct result of a decision made by the O-5 and above crowd. The amount of MM that CAG, DCAG, and the CSG have on what goes on inside the cockpit is like night and day compared to what I am used to.
Generally, when faced with a decision about weather, fuel, where to land and how to get the mission done, I act first and back brief when I land. I never saw that in my time at the boat. I have spent a lot of hours up in the tower watching things unfold, and there was always someone on the boat calling the shots.
Like I said before, I completely understand that TACAMO is a far cry from carrying weapons over unfriendly territory, so I get why it is the way it is.