Summer vs Cold weather flyers jacket and the Service Uniform

[FLGUY]

I'd go back in a heartbeat. What a fantastic 52 weeks it was.

Also take note that most of the guys (and gal) in my UPT class were done with follow-on training and at their operational units before they made O-2.

Last I heard, it took the Navy four years to make that happen for some pipelines. True? If so, talk about a haze!

Yeah, because 2-3 years of flight training where you could, you know, stay home and study when you weren’t scheduled, and didn’t have to be at work for 8 hours a day Every. Single. Weekday. Is such a haze It was great being treated like an adult, even with the helmet fires

 

[HuggyU2]

Anytime the issue of Pilot Training timeline comes up, this rebuttal always is presented. And nearly word-for-word. However, posting it 61 minutes after an 0408 posting of mine has got to be a new speed record.

I put out a fairly long rebuttal to this issue a few years ago. If I could find it, I'd just cut and paste it. But I can't, so I'll type more words about 52 week UPT.

I'll preface with what some of you already know: my first choice was to go Naval Aviation, but I was denied a pilot slot. The AF offered me an opportunity, and I ran with it. I've not nothing but love for Naval Aviation, and even pursued a Navy exchange during my career.

I was an AFROTC guy from The University of Texas. While the college "experience" was ok, I had no real desire to be near the world of Academia. All I wanted was for them to hand me the piece of paper that said I had a Bachelor's Degree so that the military would commission me and I could go to UPT.

When I got to UPT, I was 22 years, 2 months. It was clear to me from Day 1 that this was a program where you would be treated like an adult. Early show times... be there. Long hours... expect it. If you don't hack it, you're gone. Out of 63 in my UPT class, 42 got Winged. It was brutal, especially the first 6 months.

All I wanted was to be immersed in the military pilot culture, and learn everything I could about being a military pilot and officer. I learned that in the Flight Room, around seasoned instructors, at the O'Club on Friday nights, and by doing things with portions of my UPT class, often during mandatory formations.

I didn't go to UPT to go hang out at the lake. I didn't go to UPT to take a week off and tour Big Bend and West Texas. I went to UPT to fulfill a dream I had from a much younger age. I wanted to get my Wings in 52 weeks... and then I wanted to get to my follow-on assignment, learn my new aircraft, and become part of US Air Power. I didn't need my dream and future to drag on for a few more years. I wanted it now. The time for partying took place in Austin. I was ready to work. And I studied on the flightline, around my classmates. When we had a question, we had immediate access to all sorts of expertise. Not to mention, being "on the flightline" was... and is to this day... my favorite place on Earth.

You had an interesting quote "...didn’t have to be at work for 8 hours a day Every. Single. Weekday.". During college, I was a co-op for IBM on the Space Shuttle project in Houston. I worked 8 hours days there too. Every. Single. Weekday. In fact, most civilians I knew back then worked that sort of schedule. If anyone considers an 8-hour work day "a haze", then I really don't know what to say.

Coming from a non-military family (dad did 2 years in the Navy on a sub, though), it was all new to me and I soaked it up. Treated like an adult? You bet I was. Twenty-one years old and flying a supersonic jet solo, in a four ship was bad ass. Getting disciplined (deservedly) for shit I shouldn't have done was also part of growing up and being treated like an adult.

So, yeah... for me, slogging through almost 3 years to get my Wings isn't my personal idea of ideal. I wanted intense, efficient training so that I could get out "on the frontlines" of the AF and tell the commies to fuck off.

Epilogue: the AF had a different plan, and my first "frontline assignment" was teaching new UPT students how to do loops and stalls over the Mexican border for the next 3 years. As it turns out, I got pretty good at loops. So I got that going for me... which is nice.

 

[Gatordev]

Arguably a CO should be either signing off on buying that kind of stuff for the entire ready room, or none of them. None of this buddy-bro-hookup bullshit.

Before the Massif entered the supply system (apparently, since it's now issued at NPA), it had to be open purchased or purchased through the e-Mall, and that's a big purchase through there. So when a squadron would get them for their pilots, it wasn't done in a vacuum and the CO was aware, even if he wasn't actually signing the PO.

The bigger hurdle was if you were staff but still actively flying and needed gear. The RAG would maintain the gear, but as a staff dork, you don't have ready access to purchases. Enter squadron hook-ups (and for me, some nice Reserve funding availability).

 

[FLGUY]

Anytime the issue of Pilot Training timeline comes up, this rebuttal always is presented. And nearly word-for-word. However, posting it 61 minutes after an 0408 posting of mine has got to be a new speed record.

I put out a fairly long rebuttal to this issue a few years ago. If I could find it, I'd just cut and paste it. But I can't, so I'll type more words about 52 week UPT.

I'll preface with what some of you already know: my first choice was to go Naval Aviation, but I was denied a pilot slot. The AF offered me an opportunity, and I ran with it. I've not nothing but love for Naval Aviation, and even pursued a Navy exchange during my career.

I was an AFROTC guy from The University of Texas. While the college "experience" was ok, I had no real desire to be near the world of Academia. All I wanted was for them to hand me the piece of paper that said I had a Bachelor's Degree so that the military would commission me and I could go to UPT.

When I got to UPT, I was 22 years, 2 months. It was clear to me from Day 1 that this was a program where you would be treated like an adult. Early show times... be there. Long hours... expect it. If you don't hack it, you're gone. Out of 63 in my UPT class, 42 got Winged. It was brutal, especially the first 6 months.

All I wanted was to be immersed in the military pilot culture, and learn everything I could about being a military pilot and officer. I learned that in the Flight Room, around seasoned instructors, at the O'Club on Friday nights, and by doing things with portions of my UPT class, often during mandatory formations.

I didn't go to UPT to go hang out at the lake. I didn't go to UPT to take a week off and tour Big Bend and West Texas. I went to UPT to fulfill a dream I had from a much younger age. I wanted to get my Wings in 52 weeks... and then I wanted to get to my follow-on assignment, learn my new aircraft, and become part of US Air Power. I didn't need my dream and future to drag on for a few more years. I wanted it now. The time for partying took place in Austin. I was ready to work. And I studied on the flightline, around my classmates. When we had a question, we had immediate access to all sorts of expertise. Not to mention, being "on the flightline" was... and is to this day... my favorite place on Earth.

You had an interesting quote "...didn’t have to be at work for 8 hours a day Every. Single. Weekday.". During college, I was a co-op for IBM on the Space Shuttle project in Houston. I worked 8 hours days there too. Every. Single. Weekday. In fact, most civilians I knew back then worked that sort of schedule. If anyone considers an 8-hour work day "a haze", then I really don't know what to say.

Coming from a non-military family (dad did 2 years in the Navy on a sub, though), it was all new to me and I soaked it up. Treated like an adult? You bet I was. Twenty-one years old and flying a supersonic jet solo, in a four ship was bad ass. Getting disciplined (deservedly) for shit I shouldn't have done was also part of growing up and being treated like an adult.

So, yeah... for me, slogging through almost 3 years to get my Wings isn't my personal idea of ideal. I wanted intense, efficient training so that I could get out "on the frontlines" of the AF and tell the commies to fuck off.

Epilogue: the AF had a different plan, and my "frontline" was teaching new UPT students how to do loops and stalls over the Mexican border for the next 3 years. As it turns out, I got pretty good at loops. So I got that going for me... which is nice.

Nothing wrong with all that, you can still work your butt off and work full days every day for a year straight in Navy Training, but my point is that it’s moreso the fact that it’s on YOU to put in the effort, nobody is holding a gun to your head to force you to come in and do your mandatory studying. The Navy just expects you to manage your time wisely. Plenty of people were seen grinding day in and out for years in primary and advanced to achieve the best grades they could. Others did the bare minimum, and barely made it.

You can still be immersed, and motivated in the military while still being able to make your own schedule. Mandatory working hours to me seems to lead to low morale, and unnecessary headache, even with the benefit to efficiency. The USAF does many things better than we do, but the way y’all treat primary students I will always disagree with.

 

[nittany03]

?? What he said.

 

[Waveoff]

I don’t know a single person in the command that got their 3rd and 4th flight suit within two years.

 

[Hotdogs]

We’re bitching about Massif jackets now? Wow. Times have changed.

The amount of cans of Copenhagen I would’ve traded in theater to get one of those would‘ve broken the LCpl underground black market.

 

[FLGUY]

We’re bitching about Massif jackets now? Wow. Times have changed.

The amount of cans of Copenhagen I would’ve traded in theater to get one of those would‘ve broken the LCpl underground black market.

Massif jackets are the best jackets in NAVAIR. Hands down. Other than being hard to obtain at times, I don’t see how anybody could complain about them.

 

[ChuckMK23]

We’re bitching about Massif jackets now? Wow. Times have changed.

The amount of cans of Copenhagen I would’ve traded in theater to get one of those would‘ve broken the LCpl underground black market.

What we are bitching about is what a poor job Navy and Marines do at personal flight equipment compared to sister services. How Naval Aviation leaders first response is "you don't need that..what do you need that for".