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The end of NATO?
- Thread starter Waveoff
- Start date
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
The most damning part of that exchange on Signal is that apparently we are spending tens of millions of dollars to turn people in a failed state into red dust primarily because we need to stick it to former President Biden and his fellow Democrats.
Of course the press isn't focusing on that part.
Of course the press isn't focusing on that part.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
The OCA piece means that the info isn't classified unless they say it is.
If we're adhering to the actual definitions of 'grave / serious / normal damage to national security if disclosed' and not the fact that we over-classify everything out the wazoo to cover our own asses, the TOT information here by itself is probably confidential given the capabilities of the adversary.
war plans . . . . War Plans . . . . WAR PLANS !!!
Derivative classification concerns are valid here. I mean they could have called the chat group "Purple Rain" or "Best tacos ever." And they could have referred to targets and strike packages as pizza toppings or salad ingredients. Yeah, they kinda fucked up, wrt their methods and intentions.
But it's not as if we divulged B-2 bomber communication vulnerabilities, or RCS parameters for an F-18 being engaged by a SM-6.
Administrations fuck up, all the time, hopefully they learn some lessons along the way. And please, spare me the moral outrage police comments on all things "Trump is Bad" without at least considering missteps of previous administrations. Fair?
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
I was particularly latching onto the anecdote of him removing someone's NEC and security clearance for sending an email to some buddies back home to watch CNN at 330 because it corresponded to the TOT of a TLAM strike (which, based on the info provided, was a piece of info only known to people inside the skin of the ship and not explicitly written in the email). That's significantly more stringent than what I usually see happen to sailors who try to vaguely discuss operational details on unclassified communications, which usually amounts to an ass-chewing and temporary account revocation although NJP (without revoking a clearance) is not entirely uncommon.
However, we a) block access to social media and email sites underway b) read every unclassified email before it's transmitted and c) only enable unclass access to key principles during operations. So this sailor wouldn't have been able to transmit his communication to his buddy outside the skin of the ship, which alleviates us from having to crucify him. Kinda what I was driving at with looking at organizational processes. You can't put a cake in front of a fat kid and expect him not to eat it.
Anyway, Hegseth is doubling-down that the info he leaked wasn't classified. That's a bit odd to me, so maybe he actually believes that and therefore wasn't abusing his senior position? I mean, each of these people have a classified PED in his pocket that they could've used instead. Not sure if that makes the incident better or worse.
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I keep going back to my question, what if the Houthis were given a 2 hour heads up on the plan? What if the plan was published on Twitter 2 hours prior. No impact?
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
I mean, that's really the million dollar question as to whether this was classified, and to what level?
Does knowing the time on top of an impending strike somewhere in a 204,000 square mile radius really provide an adversary with the capabilities of the Houthis anything of substance to U.S. national security?
I mean, the conversation before was essentially:
'maybe we should call this off? It's not really important to our national interests and makes the President look like a hypocrite.'
'no, we totally should do it because fuck Joe Biden. If we bomb the Houthis, we can tell the public that it's his fault that they're attacking shipping. Just gotta control that messaging.'
So apparently our national security was not at stake here, but rather the administration's ability to make a political statement against a former President who will probably die before the next major election cycle.
The info certainly adds risk to the tactical mission and the people executing it, and I'd like to have a SECDEF who doesn't think so low of servicemember's lives as to put that info out in unsecure communications chains.
VPOTUS also getting “down with the troops” - range time
This is fucking stupid assumption. Have you considered that there might be more adversaries in the world with greater collection capabilities than the Houthis, who I don’t know, could then start sweeping in a condensed timeline in a small geographic region for items of interest?
For those who want a refresher on Original Classification Authority. Don’t recommend opening on a government computer. It doesn’t contain any classified information, but does reference all classification markings which might cause issues.
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
You think they weren't already watching? You think a U.S. aircraft carrier goes anywhere without the other major world powers knowing about it?
If you think that was the only asset involved, then you have a room temp IQ
Spekkio
He bowls overhand.
Of course not.
The world has watched us conduct operations like this for the last quarter of a century.
That's part of the deterrence mission.
Again, do you think platform signals have changed in the last 25 years?
Do you think the asset used for target positive ID was used in 2000?
Do you think the same BDA tools were used in 2000?
He only does the sexy stuff so far. Is he going to haul chains with a line shack airman?