Can any of you guys shed some light on what type of work NFO's would do on the outside with their military experience?
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What is it like to be an NFO?
- Thread starter bobcat2006
- Start date
Can any of you guys shed some light on what type of work NFO's would do on the outside with their military experience?
Lawyer, Dentist, CPA, production manager, sales manager, college professor, school teacher, FBI agent, minister, city planer, flight test engineer, tons of things inside the beltway. I have seen all those. Point is you can do anything you want except walk right into an airline job. And with a little planning and investment some NFOs have done that as well.
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I have a relevant question. Does this mean that as an NFO I would only actually spend about 2 years flying after winging, and the rest of the career isn't spent in planes at all? Is that similar for aviators as well?
This is assuming I don't become a "lifer" and leave after 6-ish years (NFO) or 8-ish years (SNA). I'm not saying I want to quit right away, but I can see that there would be another sea tour in planes if I stayed more time so I understand that part.
This is assuming I don't become a "lifer" and leave after 6-ish years (NFO) or 8-ish years (SNA). I'm not saying I want to quit right away, but I can see that there would be another sea tour in planes if I stayed more time so I understand that part.
No, that's not true. NFOs and Pilots follow nearly identical career paths and there are plenty of opportunities to fly after your first sea tour (RAG instructor/CAG Staff/Super JO tour/Department Head tour/Command/CAG/Etc.
Brett
Shouldn't you be doing something else on a Wednesday night/early Thursday morning than drunk posting? Sleeping it off is an idea........
bear86
New Member
NFO Questions and Help
I have two questions. One is for all the married NFO's out there. I need help talking to my wife about what life would be like for us in deployment and every day life?
My second question is what are the steps I need to take to have the best chance at getting accepting into a NFO slot? I have another year before I graduate college.
I have two questions. One is for all the married NFO's out there. I need help talking to my wife about what life would be like for us in deployment and every day life?
My second question is what are the steps I need to take to have the best chance at getting accepting into a NFO slot? I have another year before I graduate college.
And as you search consider that it isn't an NFO thing. Your life style will be the same as for a pilot. Also instructive is the SWO point of view, except your quality of life we be better
.Perspective on tactical jet NFO Career and pipeline
Having seen a lot of questions on this subject, I thought I would provide these notes from an “old” air warrior concerning the NFO career path. Traditionally, only the top performers in Basic NFO flight training would be selected for the fighter (RIO) Advanced training pipeline. There was a natural symmetry there because only the top student pilots were selected for fighters also. Now that the carrier inventory has been reduced to F-18s, EA-6s and E-2s I would expect that the competition in NFO flight training to fly the F-18F as a WSO will be intense.
A few words about the fighter experience. In the fighter RAG, simulators which put the newly- winged pilots in the aft cockpit and the new NFOs in the front were commonplace. It is safe to say that Fighter RIOs were required to know aircraft systems and procedures as well as pilots, but the pilots were not expected to have the weapons system knowledge of the RIOs. It was here that pilots and RIOs learned a deep respect for each other’s jobs.
Once you get to your fleet fighter squadron, you will find that there is absolutely no distinction between those with one anchor on their wings and those with two – except that one of each mans up the aircraft. As soon as you are experienced enough, you will fly as Mission Commander and have responsibility for flights of multiple aircraft in an operational environment. It should be noted here that although tactical jet NFOs once served as squadron Landing Signal Officers (LSOs), this particular position has been filled exclusively by pilots for some time. You will have all the responsibility – both in the air and aboard ship – that you can handle.
If your two-seat squadron skipper is a pilot, the XO is generally an NFO and vice versa. NFOs have been in the fleet for more than 40 years, and there has been no distinction between pilots and RIOs (read WSOs) for squadron, air wing and carrier commands for a generation. Until very recently, the most senior naval aviator on active duty was an NFO – who, as the theater commander commanded the wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan. The Program Manager for the Joint Strike Fighter Program – the most expensive acquisition project in history - is a Marine general officer and an NFO.
While I can’t speak from personal experience about the E-2 and EA-6B NFO communities, I flew alongside them for years and their squadron experience appeared to closely resemble that of the fighter community.
As a personal aside, when I was in VT-86, three experienced fleet attack pilots who had lost their pilot status for visual reasons wound up in the (then) RIO syllabus as they wanted to become Fighter RIOs. A few weeks in, they told anyone who would listen that it was by far the most difficult flying training they had ever experienced. The VT-86 RIO pipeline had at that time the highest attrition rate in the Naval Air Training Command. I would be surprised if it is not equally challenging today for prospective Fighter WSOs.
Having seen a lot of questions on this subject, I thought I would provide these notes from an “old” air warrior concerning the NFO career path. Traditionally, only the top performers in Basic NFO flight training would be selected for the fighter (RIO) Advanced training pipeline. There was a natural symmetry there because only the top student pilots were selected for fighters also. Now that the carrier inventory has been reduced to F-18s, EA-6s and E-2s I would expect that the competition in NFO flight training to fly the F-18F as a WSO will be intense.
A few words about the fighter experience. In the fighter RAG, simulators which put the newly- winged pilots in the aft cockpit and the new NFOs in the front were commonplace. It is safe to say that Fighter RIOs were required to know aircraft systems and procedures as well as pilots, but the pilots were not expected to have the weapons system knowledge of the RIOs. It was here that pilots and RIOs learned a deep respect for each other’s jobs.
Once you get to your fleet fighter squadron, you will find that there is absolutely no distinction between those with one anchor on their wings and those with two – except that one of each mans up the aircraft. As soon as you are experienced enough, you will fly as Mission Commander and have responsibility for flights of multiple aircraft in an operational environment. It should be noted here that although tactical jet NFOs once served as squadron Landing Signal Officers (LSOs), this particular position has been filled exclusively by pilots for some time. You will have all the responsibility – both in the air and aboard ship – that you can handle.
If your two-seat squadron skipper is a pilot, the XO is generally an NFO and vice versa. NFOs have been in the fleet for more than 40 years, and there has been no distinction between pilots and RIOs (read WSOs) for squadron, air wing and carrier commands for a generation. Until very recently, the most senior naval aviator on active duty was an NFO – who, as the theater commander commanded the wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan. The Program Manager for the Joint Strike Fighter Program – the most expensive acquisition project in history - is a Marine general officer and an NFO.
While I can’t speak from personal experience about the E-2 and EA-6B NFO communities, I flew alongside them for years and their squadron experience appeared to closely resemble that of the fighter community.
As a personal aside, when I was in VT-86, three experienced fleet attack pilots who had lost their pilot status for visual reasons wound up in the (then) RIO syllabus as they wanted to become Fighter RIOs. A few weeks in, they told anyone who would listen that it was by far the most difficult flying training they had ever experienced. The VT-86 RIO pipeline had at that time the highest attrition rate in the Naval Air Training Command. I would be surprised if it is not equally challenging today for prospective Fighter WSOs.
Not trying to take anything away from WSOs, but some people will read that post as saying that only the best become WSOs, while the rest of the fleet is just TW-6's table scraps. When pilots talk about selection/assignment, the key phrases are NEEDS OF THE NAVY/MARINE CORPS and TIMING IS EVERYTHING. The same holds true for NFOs.
There was recently a period of several years where it was entirely possible for an NFO to get Hornets simply by surviving the program. When anthro restrictions were so tight, a disproportionate number of students (~75% of Marines) were anthro'd out of Prowlers and by default into Hornets. So no matter how good you were, if you were stumpy enough to fit into a Prowler, that's what you got. NEEDS OF THE NAVY/MARINE CORPS.
Additionally, not everybody wants to be a WSO. I saw classes go through where everybody wanted Hornets. I saw other classes where everybody wanted P-3s. Two of my buddies went through advanced on the assumption that since they wanted Prowlers they would get them. They're both WSOs now. TIMING IS EVERYTHING.
Also, not to be a dick, but you imply that only the best become WSOs. There are some smart people out there in every single platform. The top Navy student in my primary class wanted and got P-3s. The top AF student in my winging class wanted and got B-1s, the top Marine in my winging class wanted and got Prowlers, and the top Navy student in my winging class got Prowlers. There were fighter spots available but they didn't want them (except that one Navy guy, and boy was he pissed) and in this case the WSOs came from the bottom of the class. So saying that only the best got/get to become WSOs just isn't true.
While I was at VT-86, I never saw a single person attrite during the fighter specific portion of the syllabus. All the advanced attrition I saw was during the strike or T-2 syllabus, which was identical regardless of which path you were going. Some people just want to be WSOs and there's nothing wrong with that. Some people just don't want to be WSOs and there's nothing wrong with that either. I'm not trying to start a pissing contest, but people who aren't familiar with how the process works need to understand that it's not as simple as it was made to sound. In the past it may have been that way but it's not like that anymore.
There was recently a period of several years where it was entirely possible for an NFO to get Hornets simply by surviving the program. When anthro restrictions were so tight, a disproportionate number of students (~75% of Marines) were anthro'd out of Prowlers and by default into Hornets. So no matter how good you were, if you were stumpy enough to fit into a Prowler, that's what you got. NEEDS OF THE NAVY/MARINE CORPS.
Additionally, not everybody wants to be a WSO. I saw classes go through where everybody wanted Hornets. I saw other classes where everybody wanted P-3s. Two of my buddies went through advanced on the assumption that since they wanted Prowlers they would get them. They're both WSOs now. TIMING IS EVERYTHING.
Also, not to be a dick, but you imply that only the best become WSOs. There are some smart people out there in every single platform. The top Navy student in my primary class wanted and got P-3s. The top AF student in my winging class wanted and got B-1s, the top Marine in my winging class wanted and got Prowlers, and the top Navy student in my winging class got Prowlers. There were fighter spots available but they didn't want them (except that one Navy guy, and boy was he pissed) and in this case the WSOs came from the bottom of the class. So saying that only the best got/get to become WSOs just isn't true.
While I was at VT-86, I never saw a single person attrite during the fighter specific portion of the syllabus. All the advanced attrition I saw was during the strike or T-2 syllabus, which was identical regardless of which path you were going. Some people just want to be WSOs and there's nothing wrong with that. Some people just don't want to be WSOs and there's nothing wrong with that either. I'm not trying to start a pissing contest, but people who aren't familiar with how the process works need to understand that it's not as simple as it was made to sound. In the past it may have been that way but it's not like that anymore.