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Female applicants and haircuts

ps: As some of you males wish for the females to have to go through 10 minutes of a painful procedure in order to initiate them to OCS, just remember that every female there had to undergo a PAP Smear as part of the medical package to go to OCS....For some women, this is somewhat painful..... for others, it is extremely painful, even causing some bleeding........ Even if it were physically possible for a man to have that procedure done, I'm certain that any man would gladly take the bad haircut over it any day.
 
You do realize that shaving of legs as a cultural expectation has nothing to do with OCS standards, yes? To my knowledge, leg shaving is not an OCS requirement and thus it really isn't relevant to this conversation.

And of course, a pap smear, which checks for medical conditions, isn't comparable to a haircut. Nor is it something military-specific, as they are recommended for anyone sexually active or over the age of 18.

I think that you maybe might have had a point about the notion that there should be one standard and that standard should be the male standard showing a bias. But you polluted your point with false comparisons and irrelevancies.

If you don't like shaving your legs (assuming you are female, and you do shave), I suggest you stop. Problem solved. If you continue to do it, it is your choice, so stop whining about it.
 
PettyOfficerCJ said:
Why is it that when someone is whining about "gender equality" in appearances, it is always assumed that the females need to look like males for equality to be accomplished?? Pretty sure you'd hear an uproar from men in the military if they were required to maintain female hair standards.....do away with the men's different standard, and we'll all follow the women's..... that would be equal too, right?? Oh, and while we're at it let's conduct surgeries so that everyone has the same gender neutral bodies too...... might have to do some genetic restructuring, but the outcome would be worth it....

(oh, and some men may complain about a one-time bad haircut/shave that results in a few nicks, but most men seem to like it that women survive a life-time of cuts and knicks in order to have nicely shaved legs.....pretty sure if there were no men in the USA, the amount of hairy legged women would appear in much greater numbers....oh and furry eyebrows, women don't take plyers to their faces everyday to pull out hair for nothing.......)
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Shaving your legs is an option, not a military necessity. As for the equality bit and having to look like men, that actually isn't too bad a point but for the fact our SECNAV seems to think otherwise with his gender-neutral uniform ideas and some men have a harder time growing hair than most women.

There has to be some accounting for gender differences but if some people are given too many extra privileges and benefits then there will resentment from those who don't get those same privileges.

PettyOfficerCJ said:
ps: As some of you males wish for the females to have to go through 10 minutes of a painful procedure in order to initiate them to OCS, just remember that every female there had to undergo a PAP Smear as part of the medical package to go to OCS....For some women, this is somewhat painful..... for others, it is extremely painful, even causing some bleeding........ Even if it were physically possible for a man to have that procedure done, I'm certain that any man would gladly take the bad haircut over it any day.
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A proctology exam is no fun either but both are medical requirements, not choices or standards that can be changed. Of course I didn't realize this was a measuring contest when this thread first started though...
 
I think we should leave it as it is. Men get their head shorn, women do whatever they feel like.
Learn about the double standard early so as not to set any unrealistic expectations regarding "gender equality" (hint: there isn't any) in the "fleet."
Pickle
 
picklesuit said:
I think we should leave it as it is. Men get their head shorn, women do whatever they feel like.
Learn about the double standard early so as not to set any unrealistic expectations regarding "gender equality" (hint: there isn't any) in the "fleet."
Pickle
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So, your logic is that since men have to get a one time bad haircut and women don't have their heads shaved, this then means that women are allowed to do whatever they want...... That savors of resentment, not reason. There are still many restrictions on women's hair (especially considering the wide variety of things they like to do to it)

...... As to the fleet, there may be some different standards (read it..... Different Standards do not equal Double Standards) for men and women when it comes to anything of a physical nature (including appearance), but women are held to the same job standards as any man. As linguists, we have some specific job standards to maintain.... if you fail, you fail, your gender does not increase the amount of work you put in in certain areas and scores you receive in others, which is what you are judged on.
If there are some slight differences in physical standards, that seems reasonable. Men and women are 2 genetically different kinds of people, this will never change...... Men aren't victims because they are treated within reason on a slightly differently on a physical standard...... and the same goes for women, they are not victims because of such things as well.

Also, I only brought up the shaving of legs to point out that women understand what a pain shaving can be........ I found it offensive that so many men were whining about the annoyance of the haircut. If it truly is emotional rite and bond of brotherhood that some of you say it is, then why are you complaining about it? Shouldn't you be feeling sorry for women instead??? Women can never enjoy the bonding that goes on in the male locker rooms..... they should be pitied.
 
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Please just stop while you (think) you are ahead. The logic in your argument is flawed. I will allow you to figure out the mistakes and correct them.
 
ea6bflyr said:
Please just stop while you (think) you are ahead. The logic in your argument is flawed. I will allow you to figure out the mistakes and correct them.
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Let me simplify what I've been trying to say.....

Statement: Men and women are physically different..... Conclusion: this leads to differences in physical standards for the 2 genders.......My View: I see this as right and perfectly acceptable .

You clearly disagree with this statement. There is nothing wrong with my logic, and there would probably be nothing wrong with yours if you wrote it out. Where we probably disagree is in our views. And that's perfectly ok...... just say so. When someone doesn't agree with you it doesn't mean they are an idiot or illogical..... It just means that you used different paths of logic and took different views. We can still have a stimulating discussion about why we don't agree..... otherwise we're left to just talk about the weather. No two people ever follow the exact same thought process.
 
PettyOfficerCJ said:
...As linguists, we have some specific job standards to maintain...
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That certainly sheds some light on the matter, I've learned linguists love to talk as much as they listen.

PettyOfficerCJ said:
...There is nothing wrong with my logic, and there would probably be nothing wrong with yours if you wrote it out....It just means that you used different paths of logic and took different views...
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fascinating-dts9h6.jpg
 
Nah, I was a teacher before I enlisted at 28, that's where the love to talk and discuss things comes from...... haha....... Best part of teaching high schoolers, was getting class discussions going and trying to get as many different opinions going as possible...... I taught science, so you can only imagine the crazy topics that we got into! There were always one or two kids that got butt-hurt because they didn't get that it was ok that their friends didn't agree all the time with what they said, but other than that it was great fun!!! :) ........ I'll have to keep it quieter at OCS here in a couple months, but I've got time to prepare myself...... haha
 
PettyOfficerCJ said:
You clearly disagree with this statement. There is nothing wrong with my logic, and there would probably be nothing wrong with yours if you wrote it out. Where we probably disagree is in our views. And that's perfectly ok...... just say so.
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Now you are throwing assumptions into the equation. I'd like to see where you are going with with this....

Maybe this will help....
 
ea6bflyr said:
Now you are throwing assumptions into the equation. I'd like to see where you are going with with this....

Maybe this will help....
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This just keeps getting more interesting..... the only conversations at work that people want to have are about World of Warcraft (no offense to anyone who likes it, but it's not my thing.....) :)

Yes, it was an assumption, but I did state that I was making one. Hence, why I made sure to include the word "probably", though that may not have been the best word choice for conveying that. You made it clear that you had an issue with my thought process, but you didn't tell me which part of it you disagreed with. You said that you wanted me to figure it out......So, I put my thought process into a concise format and and then guessed at which part of it you disagreed with. I apologize if I labeled you with the wrong opinion, but you didn't give me much to work with.
 
PettyOfficerCJ said:
Conclusion: this leads to differences in physical standards for the 2 genders.......My View: I see this as right and perfectly acceptable.
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I don't disagree with you on this point, and I would venture that many others on this website (and military in general) wouldn't disagree with you either. Unfortunately when two groups with different standards are given the same job, there is natural friction between those groups. Especially when a vocal lobby in the civilian world is trying to open up all jobs to women.
 
BigBadBoJenkins said:
I don't disagree with you on this point, and I would venture that many others on this website (and military in general) wouldn't disagree with you either. Unfortunately when two groups with different standards are given the same job, there is natural friction between those groups. Especially when a vocal lobby in the civilian world is trying to open up all jobs to women.
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That's definitely an interesting angle to look at this from!.......You have a good point there. And there are a lot of feathers ruffling because of the move to put women in special forces.........When I get asked about it, I just say that if the job is a primarily physical job, then the physical standards should be the same for everyone, regardless of age or gender, because that's the job. So, if a woman wants to be in Special Forces then she has to pass the same standard test as the rest, and in this case it should be biased towards a man's physical make-up because that's what's needed for the job. (Which, let's be frank, a woman passing won't happen........ Very, very, very few men can even pass our Navy's special forces training.) For all the not-primarily physical jobs in the Navy (and that's most) where the physical requirement is just be in shape, then I think it's good that we have modifications based on age, gender, and physical limitations, and more emphasis is placed on how they perform in their job.......

You're right about civilians, I don't think they realize that when it comes to physicalness between the genders, it just will never be fair. Those dang sex chromosomes...... just causing more issues ;)
 
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