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1Nov2021 SNA/SNFO Board

Doback

Doback

Well-Known Member
exNavyOffRec said:
To be politically correct as the USN touts the "whole person concept", that kind of works for some designators, often smaller ones but they most still pick those with high GPA's. The technical ones (Nuke/CEC/CWE/Aviation) have to go with what will get them through the program or training pipeline.

Kind of, the number of people selected for aviation with no LOR's and minimal statements over the years is staggering. I have seen applicants who technically should have been selected on the "whole person concept" as they had high GPA, athletes, leadership experience, and volunteer experience but their scores were 5 or 6 so they were not. I have seen applicants who did literally nothing in college except go to school who had high PFAR's get selected and have don't quite well so well that I can't think of being told of one who didn't make it to the fleet as an pilot.

I don't know how accurate this is but I was told that 20 or so years ago that board selections were made by pilots and nfo's, and they focused not on the ASTB, and that the drop rate in the pipeline was not acceptable to NRC was given control of selections for aviation and several other designators. If the aviation board members follow what NRC fixed things should be fine, however when selections were given back to SWO, Supply, and IWC they have still managed to screw it up over the years.
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Not saying it’s false but seems crazy, is the test really that magical at predicting drop out rates? Do you have any info on what the correlation rate between the two is?
 
E

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
Val135 said:
I know from AD perspective I personally know 3 people who were picked up for Aviation (2 NFO and 1 SNA) their scores were 5’a and 4’s with the SNA having a 6 PFAR. They all were picked up within the last three or so years but all three dropped out of the pipeline for one reason or another. They all had very good appraisals.
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4 is not a qualifying score so they could not be picked up with a 4, a 5 yes, and historically since fewer people apply for NFO there is a better chance of getting it with a 5.

A 6 for PFAR is still possible but low, sometimes they end up going through many of the others, I have had guys picked up with 6's, it was few and really they did it as a longshot before retaking the ASTB so the application was minimal, short statement and maybe 1 LOR.

In most cases when I am talking about scores it is about SNA's as that is what most people go for, even this board looking at the numbers at board for NFO and the numbers available there should be minimal no's if going for NFO.
 
E

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
Tkoelsch said:
Not saying it’s false but seems crazy, is the test really that magical at predicting drop out rates? Do you have any info on what the correlation rate between the two is?
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It is an aptitude test and it is constantly validated like every aptitude test in the military or even civilian sector.

There was years ago a presentation where they showed the graph, like you would expect 9 was the highest chance and it dropped from there, this of course doesn't mean a person with a 5 can't end up flying jets off of a carrier, we have people on this site who had 5's that have had successful careers. The thing is that it cost money to send people through the pipeline and it cost time so the USN has to go with the odds of who is going to make it.

Think of it this way, if you need to hire a plumber to do some work and you have 2 choices, a guy that gets the work right 60% of the time and a guy that gets the work right 90% of the time and both cost the same amount who will you pick?
 
NewComb

NewComb

Well-Known Member
exNavyOffRec said:
It is an aptitude test and it is constantly validated like every aptitude test in the military or even civilian sector.

There was years ago a presentation where they showed the graph, like you would expect 9 was the highest chance and it dropped from there, this of course doesn't mean a person with a 5 can't end up flying jets off of a carrier, we have people on this site who had 5's that have had successful careers. The thing is that it cost money to send people through the pipeline and it cost time so the USN has to go with the odds of who is going to make it.

Think of it this way, if you need to hire a plumber to do some work and you have 2 choices, a guy that gets the work right 60% of the time and a guy that gets the work right 90% of the time and both cost the same amount who will you pick?
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This of course is accurate and makes sense but it's interesting that so much weight and consideration is given to a 2.5 hour test taken in the closet of a NRC with a loud refrigerator on a early 2000's computer that crashes twice mid test (and doesn't accept emergency procedure accurate inputs on either the first test or retest) with a $5 pair of headphones that do not fit your ears. Hopefully this experience is not universal but it sucks that this is supposed to be statistically indicative of an applicant's ability to excel in this program. But hey I guess that's just the military. I have a friend who scored 6/6/6 who is now in Whidbey flying the Growler so chin up to my fellow 5-6 PFARS that are crying in the corner with me.
 
Mike D.

Mike D.

Well-Known Member
Contributor
mizzou590 said:
This of course is accurate and makes sense but it's interesting that so much weight and consideration is given to a 2.5 hour test taken in the closet of a NRC with a loud refrigerator on a early 2000's computer that crashes twice mid test (and doesn't accept emergency procedure accurate inputs on either the first test or retest) with a $5 pair of headphones that do not fit your ears. Hopefully this experience is not universal but it sucks that this is supposed to be indicative of an applicant's ability to excel in this program. But hey I guess that's just the military. I have a friend who scored 6/6/6 who is now in Widbey flying the Growler so chin up to my fellow 5-6 PFARS that are crying in the corner with me.
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Dude. Same exact experience. Test crashed multiple times. I was so pissed after emergency procedures when I left testing because my test also did not accept the accurate input but instead forced me to twist a knob a different direction than what the instructions said. I went over it a million times and when the first emergency procedure came up it was clear I was doing it wrong and yet following the instructions to the letter.

Either way, it was third attempt so out of my hands now. All of that being said, the only logical option for big Navy is to have a selection test just to simply weed hopefuls out. There are always outliers in any data set but it seems Navy has their scores and pipeline figured out. Numbers never lie! Lol.
 
BDavis11

BDavis11

Well-Known Member
Contributor
mizzou590 said:
This of course is accurate and makes sense but it's interesting that so much weight and consideration is given to a 2.5 hour test taken in the closet of a NRC with a loud refrigerator on a early 2000's computer that crashes twice mid test (and doesn't accept emergency procedure accurate inputs on either the first test or retest) with a $5 pair of headphones that do not fit your ears. Hopefully this experience is not universal but it sucks that this is supposed to be statistically indicative of an applicant's ability to excel in this program. But hey I guess that's just the military. I have a friend who scored 6/6/6 who is now in Whidbey flying the Growler so chin up to my fellow 5-6 PFARS that are crying in the corner with me.
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Defly crying in the corner for my pilot chances. But I feel good about nfo
 
Michael Campbell

Michael Campbell

Well-Known Member
mizzou590 said:
This of course is accurate and makes sense but it's interesting that so much weight and consideration is given to a 2.5 hour test taken in the closet of a NRC with a loud refrigerator on a early 2000's computer that crashes twice mid test (and doesn't accept emergency procedure accurate inputs on either the first test or retest) with a $5 pair of headphones that do not fit your ears. Hopefully this experience is not universal but it sucks that this is supposed to be statistically indicative of an applicant's ability to excel in this program. But hey I guess that's just the military. I have a friend who scored 6/6/6 who is now in Whidbey flying the Growler so chin up to my fellow 5-6 PFARS that are crying in the corner with me.
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Same experience here. Computer crashed twice and headphones were questionable. Hoping my PFAR of 8 will out weigh my AQR and FOFAR scores which were both 6’s.
 
E

exNavyOffRec

Well-Known Member
mizzou590 said:
This of course is accurate and makes sense but it's interesting that so much weight and consideration is given to a 2.5 hour test taken in the closet of a NRC with a loud refrigerator on a early 2000's computer that crashes twice mid test (and doesn't accept emergency procedure accurate inputs on either the first test or retest) with a $5 pair of headphones that do not fit your ears. Hopefully this experience is not universal but it sucks that this is supposed to be statistically indicative of an applicant's ability to excel in this program. But hey I guess that's just the military. I have a friend who scored 6/6/6 who is now in Whidbey flying the Growler so chin up to my fellow 5-6 PFARS that are crying in the corner with me.
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There are many companies who screen out people based on a 1 hour or less personality test no matter if they have done the job or not, if you don't "pass" sometimes you can apply to another similar position and try again, others block you from applying again for 1 year!

I get how it can be frustrating, but to be blunt it is about money, not people.
 
Michael Campbell

Michael Campbell

Well-Known Member
Mike D. said:
My recruiter mentioned that anybody that gets an 8 on any score is an auto select lol 95% sure he was blowing smoke up my ass
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I’ve read that around here somewhere too and it definitely sounds like smoke is being blown lol. I’ve seen people get picked up with PFAR of 6 and others were declined with PFAR of 8. Who knows honestly. Let’s just hope this board is generous ?
 
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