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DoD hiring freeze

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
A side effect of NCLB and ESSA is that classes that weren't tested went by the wayside. They were viewed in many states as a distraction toward obtaining funding. Surprisingly, CA is a huge offender of this despite being a 'blue' state, but that's also because Prop 13 wreaks havoc on the state's education system among other things.



Except most parents don't want equal outcomes. They want their children to have a leg up into getting into the best universities and therefore have the best earning potential.

Hell, you see this in youth sports where parents on a large scale are signing their kids up to year-round clinics and practices to try to make little Johnny into a pro athlete at 7 years old.

Also, the trades shot themselves in the feet with union nepotism. Good luck getting an apprenticeship.
Agree. When discussing best ways to spend public education dollars, I think guys like this deserve a lot more recognition and support.
 

JTS11

Well-Known Member
pilot
Contributor
While we're talking fairness in and subsidies in funding education, consider the childless property owners that pay property taxes into the school system. Many Americans approaching or retirement age or retired live in homes that produce a significant amount of property tax that goes to schools, yet they send no one to school. Should their property taxes be considered a subsidy to the education of families with multiple children and paying less in property taxes?

Yup, it is a complex highly debatable issue.
From what I've seen, there are people on the pro-voucher side who argue they should be able to control where their share of taxes get spent. To me, it would be as if bc I don't use that highway or bridge on the other side of town, I shouldn't have my sales and property taxes go towards it.

I'm guessing a lot private school tuitions are about to inflate bc of this voucher money. Just my opinion.
 

sevenhelmet

Low calorie attack from the Heartland
pilot
From what I've seen, there are people on the pro-voucher side who argue they should be able to control where their share of taxes get spent. To me, it would be as if bc I don't use that highway or bridge on the other side of town, I shouldn't have my sales and property taxes go towards it.

I'm guessing a lot private school tuitions are about to inflate bc of this voucher money. Just my opinion.

That's the other problem of the voucher argument- by increasing demand for private schools, you move up the demand curve, increasing price. It's similar to what we have seen from the "everyone must go to college!" movement that has caused college education costs to spiral out of control, well beyond inflation.

Public schools serve an incredibly important purpose in our society. I agree with the points of reducing administrative burdens and increasing teacher pay (which is criminally low). I don't agree that deleting the DOEd is the way to do that. Scalpel, not chainsaw.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
That's the other problem of the voucher argument- by increasing demand for private schools, you move up the demand curve, increasing price. It's similar to what we have seen from the "everyone must go to college!" movement that has caused college education costs to spiral out of control, well beyond inflation.

Public schools serve an incredibly important purpose in our society. I agree with the points of reducing administrative burdens and increasing teacher pay (which is criminally low). I don't agree that deleting the DOEd is the way to do that. Scalpel, not chainsaw.
The drastic increase in 4-year university tuition costs was, in large part, due to a significant decrease in state funding for higher education across the nation in most states in the 00s. Since 2014 or so, the per year increase of public university tuition is in-line with inflation.

Today, many universities, public and private, are facing dire financial straits due to low enrollment.

As for teacher salary - that's a highly localized issue.
 

number9

Well-Known Member
Contributor
That's the other problem of the voucher argument- by increasing demand for private schools, you move up the demand curve, increasing price. It's similar to what we have seen from the "everyone must go to college!" movement that has caused college education costs to spiral out of control, well beyond inflation.
I would argue that vouchers don't merely move consumers up the demand curve, but rather shift the entire demand curve out to the right.

number9, economics tragic
 

Faded Float Coat

Suck Less
pilot
Sorry, but I'm waiving the bullshit flag on this one.

One of the largest problems facing low-income families is obesity.


In the vast majority of cases, the parents can afford to send the children to school with lunch - they just choose not to. Note that I have no inherent issue with universal school lunch if for no other reason than convenience, but the Puss 'n Boots' wide-eyed alligator tear approach is just a cash grab.

As for special education... principals often have their hands full with every Tom and Jane who wants their child classified as special ed the moment they have a modicum of academic or behavioral challenges. So much so that it created military recruiting shortfalls until we changed the rules regarding past mental disorder diagnoses.
You're more than welcome to join me every week when I volunteer to drive around town delivering food-bank donated bags of groceries to what are generously characterized as "houses" where a lot of the kids in my district live. It's a small district, very small, less than 3,000 kids, and more than a 1/3 of them qualify for meal assistance. The residences I'm delivering groceries to are not choosing Applebees over fresh vegetables. They're choosing between gas, utilities, insurance, and groceries. Again, hit me up, fly yourself here, and I'll sign you up for a shift.
 

number9

Well-Known Member
Contributor
On AW….tnis is the way.

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robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
You're more than welcome to join me every week when I volunteer to drive around town delivering food-bank donated bags of groceries to what are generously characterized as "houses" where a lot of the kids in my district live. It's a small district, very small, less than 3,000 kids, and more than a 1/3 of them qualify for meal assistance. The residences I'm delivering groceries to are not choosing Applebees over fresh vegetables. They're choosing between gas, utilities, insurance, and groceries. Again, hit me up, fly yourself here, and I'll sign you up for a shift.
You are a saint for doing this. God bless you . . . .
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
It's very simple.

"Do you think educating the body politic is a good idea?"

If yes, then you support public education.

If not, then you don't.

Public education, like taxes, are the price of admission to a modern, functioning society.

It's very simple.

"Do you think educating the body politic is a good idea?"

If yes, then you support public education.

If not, then you don't.

Public education, like taxes, are the price of admission to a modern, functioning society.
I support public education. Yep, the public system that is producing more poorly educated kids every year. So I pay my taxes every year even though I am an empty nester for a long time now. But our K-12 public system is not producing the best citizens for a modern functioning society. And it isn't just about money. My children went to the local HS, one of the very best public high schools in the state, better than all but a couple private schools. In terms of test scores graduation rates college matriculation and any other metric it ranked tops. Other high schools in the same school district failed to perform anywhere near as well. They also got similar funding from the state as piss poor high schools. I support public education, just not crappy public education. Even though my children's public education was very good, on balance across the country the system is failing way too many students. If we currently have a 2 tier education system, thank God for the top tier or many more American youth would be getting short changed. With fewer graduates ready for a top university education in a challenging program. I would like to see more ways to make an existing better school or system available to more children.
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
As for the cranky old couple - this is an example of 'pay it forward.' They attended a public school system, their children attended a public school system, and their grandchildren attended a public school system.
It was just another example of "subsidy" in education. In that case though most Americans tolerate it
 

taxi1

Well-Known Member
pilot
While we're talking fairness in and subsidies in funding education, consider the childless property owners that pay property taxes into the school system. Many Americans approaching or retirement age or retired live in homes that produce a significant amount of property tax that goes to schools, yet they send no one to school. Should their property taxes be considered a subsidy to the education of families with multiple children and paying less in property taxes?

Yup, it is a complex highly debatable issue.
Two thoughts...

First, quality of schools directly impact property values. Ask any Real Estate agent. His contribution adds to the value of his property. Important when it is time to sell or pass down as inheritance.

Second, his money is helping to train up future taxpayers, cops, firefighters, soldiers, trashmen, cooks, and all the other people that he depends on directly and indirectly, out front and behind the scenes. Did I mention training future taxpayers?

Look at the societies where the rate of having kids is way below replacement rate (Japan, South Korea). They are failing, and failing before the old people die. Everyone suffers.
 
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