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E and F Model Hornets

HeyJoe

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Brett327 said:
I see that it's time for our quarterly AW single vs. double anchor throwdown. :D

Brett
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I think this is a LSO versus SOP "discussion". I'm not saying it shouldn't be the way A4s liked it. Neither heard that opinion before and would not have been against it if our Wing LSO or anyone else in CoC wanted it that way. It's not a big deal to me, but I will say it didn't take any discussion, If I could see the ball from the backseat, there'd be something seriously wrong if the frontseater couldn't. That was never any issue.

I only take issue with A4s saying: what is the point of the NFO calling the ball??? What is to be gained?? Other than allowing the NFO to feel "good" about himself or feel more a part of the carrier landing evolution??? That detracts from the point and I'm not afraid to call that spade a spade. We could all agree without that being through in as it is patronizing. The "contract" in a fighter cockpit always allowed for pilot to make certain calls (like "visual" or "tally" in ACM) and calling the "ball" would easily fit in that category. It wasn't my call to make that SOP and if I didn't make that call, I'd still feel "good" or like I was doing my part in any aspect of recovery....one things experienced pilots don't seem to appreciate is that as you gain experience, you are safer (for the most part), yet the NFO ends up in the reverse situation by having to fly with progressively less experienced pilots (even some coming off carrier landing performance related mishaps...BTDT). If the pilot isn't up to the challenge, the NFO ends up in same pickle (no pun intended)....the LSO is waving (and grading) the pass, but the NFO has a bit more on the line (FNAEBs are equal opportunity events if you survive a calamity).
 
A4sForever

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
heyjoe said:
I think this is a LSO versus SOP "discussion"......one things experienced pilots don't seem to appreciate [edit: this one does:) ] is that as you gain experience, you are safer (for the most part), yet the NFO ends up in the reverse situation by having to fly with progressively less experienced pilots .....If the pilot isn't up to the challenge, the NFO ends up in same pickle (no pun intended)........
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No argument here ... and all the more reason for the nugget pilot to be on the "same page" as the LSO. Now let's all kick back, go squeeze some limes and listen to DaKine ....

50933080_a023605cbb_m.jpg
 
HeyJoe

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
A4sForever said:
No argument here ... and all the more reason for the nugget pilot to be on the "same page" as the LSO. Now let's all kick back, go squeeze some limes and listen to DaKine ....

50933080_a023605cbb_m.jpg
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Ditto. Hey, is that the view from your mean ole house? Looks like Lanikai or even more up towards Buzz's Steak House way in Kailua. That's where I'd like to be having someone else squeezing them limes.
 
raptor10

raptor10

Philosoraptor
Contributor
When does AESA come online for the Rhino? And how does acquiring a new radar affect a crews training cycle i.e. how long does it take to get requaled?
 
HeyJoe

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
raptor10 said:
When does AESA come online for the Rhino? And how does acquiring a new radar affect a crews training cycle i.e. how long does it take to get requaled?
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There are several in fleet right now (Note: AESA = APG-79)
 
Catmando

Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
How'd I miss this thread? Most has already been said. (FWIW, my RO always called the ball…unless of course, the aircraft I was flying was, single-seat ;) )

I am reminded of over a generation ago, when the F-4 replaced the last of the single-seat, F-8's. The Navy took all my F-4 squadron's combat experienced RIO's, and put them in with combat experienced, single-seat F-8 fighter pilots, in a new F-4 squadron. Talk about friction!

For nearly two years in those two new squadrons, crew-concept was a dirty word. It was nearly, non-existent. And it definitely showed in the squadrons' poor performance.

Even today, I still occasionally hear some of those old guys involved – both front and back seat – complain of their problems with the 'other' cockpit, of so long ago.
 
montellv

montellv

Professional Badguy
pilot
A4sForever, does your seeing-eye-dog do the typing on this post or did they find glasses thick enough! Just kidding, paddles. In our (and most F) squadrons the WSO makes the ball call but the pilot makes the needles call. It was the same in the Tomcat that our squadron transitioned from.
The pilot can do everything in an F, but having 2 sets of eyes and ears as well as 2 brains is great in almost every area. We say it doesn't make us twice as good but it is definetly better than one.
 
A4sForever

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
montellv said:
A4sForever, does your seeing-eye-dog do the typing on this post or did they find glasses thick enough! Just kidding, paddles. In our (and most F) squadrons the WSO makes the ball call but the pilot makes the needles call. It was the same in the Tomcat that our squadron transitioned from.
The pilot can do everything in an F, but having 2 sets of eyes and ears as well as 2 brains is great in almost every area. We say it doesn't make us twice as good but it is definetly better than one.
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Actually ...... One of our guys fashioned a white cane and with shades on tapped his way out to the platform for a recovery. Everyone (except the Boss) got a big kick out of it. No seeing eye dogs, however .....

Agree with everything else you said (basically) .... but .... not ONE ... i.e., not ONE of you guys have told me why it's "better" technique/policy/SOP to have the NFO "call the ball".

I'm still waiting ..... :sleep_125

Hint: the guy flyin' needs to call the ball.
 
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