Europe under extreme duress

[taxi1]

I would imagine you got more of a full debrief than I did. But from what we could see in the class, he just could not grasp the scenario and his role in it… he just seemed to be on a different planet than everyone else.

I don’t know how his career went after that particular training failure, but I don’t think he would have been a good fit in any of the units I have served with. I’ll leave it at that.

He was a DCO reserve officer who was a prior enlisted Religious Program specialist. He wanted in on our mission, and we felt we needed a gut check. Asked, “Hey, you ever heard of SERE School?” In hindsight, that was a bit cruel.

Within his skill set he did fine afterward, contributing as he could, and is a good guy. Just not what we needed.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Surrendered while others were filing out of the classroom to head to the field.

Brought iPad to keep up with Survivor episodes.

Had pizza delivered to POW camp.

Swore loyalty to a country that doesn’t even exist.

Wow

 

[Griz882]

Wow

I wasn’t there, just coloring outside the lines.

 

[Brett327]

SERE was never a requirement for the Marines, though many would attend if they had time and an allocation. Interestingly, the same for SEALs, although I gathered they made more of an effort to get their guys there at some point early on.

My class had an O-4 VP NFO as our class leader. I have no idea how or why she was there at that point, but she was terrible.

In the early 90s, the east coast VP folks weren’t required to do SERE. I didn’t go until after flight school in 2000.

 

[Hair Warrior]

He was a DCO reserve officer who was a prior enlisted Religious Program specialist. He wanted in on our mission, and we felt we needed a gut check. Asked, “Hey, you ever heard of SERE School?” In hindsight, that was a bit cruel.

Within his skill set he did fine afterward, contributing as he could, and is a good guy. Just not what we needed.

Was he a Chaplain or was he some other designator?

 

[JTS11]

OK, this is kind of funny and a good troll. Ukranians leaving reviews of Kursk restaurants. One example.

x.com

x.com

 

[Gatordev]

What timeframe was that? I heard after the Hainan EP-3 incident a lot of dudes who hadn’t been required to go to SERE before all of a sudden found themselves with orders.

This was 2002, so I guess she could have fallen into the window Brett mentions

In the early 90s, the east coast VP folks weren’t required to do SERE. I didn’t go until after flight school in 2000.

What was that you were saying about not being on the same page as every other community...?

As someone who lived in Mali for 3 years (back in the good times) can I just say that I absolutely love to see it.

The problem that's in question is who they worked with to pull off the attack. While one of the factions are separatists, the question that's in play is did they also get support in some fashion by ISIS. They may not have, but from what I read the other day, there isn't definitive evidence they didn't.

 

[Flash]

SERE was never a requirement for the Marines, though many would attend if they had time and an allocation. Interestingly, the same for SEALs, although I gathered they made more of an effort to get their guys there at some point early on.

I should have said Navy fleet squadrons, from what folks said at the school and in my squadrons it wasn't really enforced that well in the Navy until the mid-to-late 90's like Brett mentioned. Hence the VP O-4's showing up periodically around the time you and I went through. The Marines I went through seemed to be all over the place while the vast majority of Navy O's were fresh out of flight school with few exceptions, we had about 6-8 HMLA guys in my class from new to second tour Capts.

What timeframe was that? I heard after the Hainan EP-3 incident a lot of dudes who hadn’t been required to go to SERE before all of a sudden found themselves with orders.

There was a more advanced SERE that some of us VQ folks went through before then that was more specialized but even more valuable in some ways than the regular SERE, still one of the best courses in the military I've ever done. Some of it actually covered that exact scenario and quickly became required for VQ after that.

 

[CommodoreMid]

SERE 220 is technically required for all MPRA, but only been really enforced in the last couple years. I didn’t go until I was enroute to my DH tour.

 

[taxi1]

Was he a Chaplain or was he some other designator?

Was an engineer type with a civilian PhD

We had another DCO O4 go through also, he did fine.

I didn't think you could fail SERE until it happened.

 

[IKE]

We were never at extremes in our operating areas. I believe that the gouge was that the tandem rotor system of a -47 was more efficient at high DA's (maybe a smart guy like @IKE can weigh in)

Never got to go, but the Army runs a mountain flying course in Colorado, that was highly respected. Maybe there are some AW guys/gals on here that attended?

I think rotor efficiencies are only slightly different. The main reason some helos do better at altitude is simply more power available. The 47 and 53 were both designed for higher ratio of max gross weight to dry weight. I don't know that a max GW 53 is any better in the mountains than a max GW H-60, but the 53 can take just the right amount of fuel for the duration and load.

I think the 47 has oversized engines, which is great when you need them, but means you're burning more gas (inefficient) at low altitudes most days. The 160th has beefier engines in their Hawks than we do, because they can afford to waste gas, and the aircraft is engine-limited (vice transmission) at higher altitudes/temps.

 

[sevenhelmet]

Was an engineer type with a civilian PhD

We had another DCO O4 go through also, he did fine.

I didn't think you could fail SERE until it happened.

I was always curious about why he was there- were you guys forward-deploying? A lot of us in the class scratched our heads at the time about an RPA guy being sent.

 

[Random8145]

We were never at extremes in our operating areas. I believe that the gouge was that the tandem rotor system of a -47 was more efficient at high DA's (maybe a smart guy like @IKE can weigh in)

Never got to go, but the Army runs a mountain flying course in Colorado, that was highly respected. Maybe there are some AW guys/gals on here that attended?

I remember in a prior post Griz mentioning something about the "mad skills" the Army mountain flying school pilots had.

 

[JTS11]

I think rotor efficiencies are only slightly different. The main reason some helos do better at altitude is simply more power available. The 47 and 53 were both designed for higher ratio of max gross weight to dry weight. I don't know that a max GW 53 is any better in the mountains than a max GW H-60, but the 53 can take just the right amount of fuel for the duration and load.

I think the 47 has oversized engines, which is great when you need them, but means you're burning more gas (inefficient) at low altitudes most days. The 160th has beefier engines in their Hawks than we do, because they can afford to waste gas, and the aircraft is engine-limited (vice transmission) at higher altitudes/temps.

That tracks with what I know/knew (non STEM, state college business degree). The 53-E was engine limited, unless operating in frigid temps where you could hit torque limits.

At MGW, a lot comes down to preflight planning and updates in flight. Our community got better when I was in after some mishaps (better SOP's, checking actual engine power prior to a heavy lift, etc). Hopefully the Kilo has better tech to address PA/PR calculations on the fly. Also with CG loading of internal and external cargo.

 

[Griz882]

I remember in a prior post Griz mentioning something about the "mad skills" the Army mountain flying school pilots had.

While I have seen them in action, I did not attend the school. I do know a number of guard guys who went. It is run by the Colorado Army Guard and is used by the SOAR, Guard, reserve, and active duty for their mountain training. A few allied nations train there as well. Interesting side note…when I visited they had a Coast Guard aviator assigned there as an instructor.