Europe under extreme duress

[Random8145]

To the extent that Russia thinks we are a potential military threat - ok? We always say we build our military to counter capabilities, not intent.

I don't think Hitler repeats of Operation Barbarossa motivate Putin or keep him up at night. There's nothing in his national security strategies to indicate this is a concern.

Not at the moment, no. I don't think he is afraid of such happening any time soon. But long-term, he doesn't want any Western powers right on Russia's border that can be avoided and especially not Ukraine.

I think he views westernization as an existential cultural threat. The collapse of Russia won't come with guns, but an internal collapse when Russian people adopt the ways of the west. That's the significance of countries with Russian populations joining NATO. And his paranoia is that we used the full extent of American intelligence community resources to turn Eastern Bloc governments against him rather than the simple explanation that Europe is rejecting authoritarianism.

IMO it is both military and cultural.

Read how Presidents during the Cold War had to interact with Russian leaders to reach agreements. The ones who were successful knew how to exploit their egos. The ones who puffed their chests and threw insults provoked negative responses.

Remember a leader not padding the ego of a foreign leader doesn't mean they are puffing their chests or throwing insults either.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Who would your ideal statesman be to negotiate this rapprochement between RUS and UKR?

Megan Markle

 

[taxi1]

I think he views westernization as an existential cultural threat. The collapse of Russia won't come with guns, but an internal collapse when Russian people adopt the ways of the west.

And yet Russia has always desperately want to be considered a part of Europe. You’d barely know about Eastern Russia if you didn’t look on a map. Going back to the Czars. It’s kind of sad and pathetic.

 

[sevenhelmet]

And yet Russia has always desperately want to be considered a part of Europe. You’d barely know about Eastern Russia if you didn’t look on a map. Going back to the Czars. It’s kind of sad and pathetic.

They can be part of Europe or part of China, it’s up to them…

The return of a Soviet-style superpower is a pipe dream.

 

[Gatordev]

Bush 42

I think you may have meant Bush 43. There's an interesting story, I think from the Washington Post, banging around on the internet about Bush 43's interaction with Putin. It's at the micro level, not the macro level you're discussing, but it boiled down to the fact that Putin could not wrap his brain around how the US worked day-to-day, and how "free" its citizens were from certain government control.

 

[Spekkio]

I think you may have meant Bush 43. There's an interesting story, I think from the Washington Post, banging around on the internet about Bush 43's interaction with Putin. It's at the micro level, not the macro level you're discussing, but it boiled down to the fact that Putin could not wrap his brain around how the US worked day-to-day, and how "free" its citizens were from certain government control.

The micro level relationships among world leaders is what I'm talking about and can be very significant.

Do you have a link? Whenever I search I just get dozens of clickbait links about his gaffe wrt Iraq vs Ukraine.

 

[Gatordev]

I'm sorry I don't. I ended up reading about it through the WP's Daily 202 email, before it changed to its current DC-centric form.

 

[Uncle Fester]

...it boiled down to the fact that Putin could not wrap his brain around how the US worked day-to-day, and how "free" its citizens were from certain government control.

It's not just Putin. I've read a lot over the years about how the average Russian simply can't/won't process that things in the West don't function like they do for them. I suppose it's easier to accept that your country is fucked up if you also believe that it's like that everywhere for everyone.

Anyway, I think it's that mindset that makes rapprochement with Russia so difficult. They approach everything with a combination of cynicism and paranoia that assumes anyone they deal with is acting in bad faith with a secret agenda - because that's what they'd do - and they "negotiate" accordingly. Convince them that you're sincere in what you're saying, and to the Russian that just means you're a naïve sucker to be fleeced.

 

[Hair Warrior]

Anyway, I think it's that mindset that makes rapprochement with Russia so difficult. They approach everything with a combination of cynicism and paranoia that assumes anyone they deal with is acting in bad faith with a secret agenda - because that's what they'd do - and they "negotiate" accordingly. Convince them that you're sincere in what you're saying, and to the Russian that just means you're a naïve sucker to be fleeced.

I don’t disagree. That said, after 1991 we took a victory lap while their economy crashed. They (including Putin personally, according to his biographers) felt humiliated by that.

Also, if the SECDEF or CJCS could wave a magic wand and make all of Russia’s nuclear weapons disappear safely, at zero cost of blood or treasure, don’t you think we’d do it?

 

[Mos]

Also, if the SECDEF or CJCS could wave a magic wand and make all of Russia’s nuclear weapons disappear safely, at zero cost of blood or treasure, don’t you think we’d do it?

What'd be really nice is a magic wand that made ALL nuclear weapons disappear safely.

 

[sevenhelmet]

What'd be really nice is a magic wand that made ALL nuclear weapons disappear safely.

That would do wonders for our ability to counter North Korea and Iran. Might even improve world cooperation.

Where's Superman when we need him?

 

[jmcquate]

If the Knowledge, and the materials to create a widget exist, can widgets ever go away?

 

[Hair Warrior]

If the Knowledge, and the materials to create a widget exist, can widgets ever go away?

Yes, just look at Netscape Navigator.

 

[Spekkio]

Yes, just look at Netscape Navigator.

In a general sense, only when you have innovated a new widget that serves the same function. In the case of nuclear weapons, that entails developing some other explosive device with the destructive power of a megaton of TNT without the associated radioactive fallout.

 

[JTS11]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/11/politics/donald-trump-security-requests/index.html

Why would your campaign make this request public? Bizarre IMO. Also, dangerous.