F-16 pilot angers civilian pilot

[nittany03]

My favorite part is how he calls himself a "Renaissance man (a person with a wide range of interests and expertise)"

Describing yourself as a Renaissance Man and then immediately defining it for the benefit of the benighted hoi polloi = POMPOUS.

"I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal. People know me. I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany."

 

[Single Seat]

Someone email him this thread.

 

[eye_malfunction]

Having that Hornet as your avatar just confuses me, makes me think you're active duty

Just graduated college. Trying to figure out what to do with life. Avatar changed.

/threadjack

 

[SemperGumbi]

It is legal to smoke on down the VR route at 420+kts without climbing above the pattern but is it wise?

Pattern at civie fields is usually 1000.

And I am about to be "that guy."

5.1.6.3.1 General
a. Unless otherwise delineated in a MTRs special
operating procedures, aircrew shall avoid charted,
uncontrolled airports by 3 nm or 1,500 feet.

 

[Purdue]

And, by the way, it's spelled "Air Force".

No.... I think he spelled it correctly... we should really spell things as they are pronounced.

Also, there is the legend at Vance of T-38's joining up on civilians who flew through our MOA's...

 

[jollygreen07]

Going through IFS at Destin, we were completely surrounded by Warning areas, prohibited areas, restricted areas.. you name it. We had to do all of our north-south flying through a corridor, and it made me pretty nervous on my X-ctry solo flying with restriced airspace on either side of me.

I, for one enjoyed the experience. The airspace was always busy, both from military traffic from Hurlburt and Eglin, and from the ass-load of civil traffic coming and going from Destin. It really taught us to maintain a vigilant scan and always be very aware of what's going on on the radio.

My best memory from IFS was being shadowed (at a considerably greater distance than 20', mind you) by a F-22. We weren't in a restricted area, and I think the guy was just out having fun but he followed us for a few minutes and broke off back towards the Tyndall area. It was awesome. Musta liked flying slow... :spin_125:

 

[T37Driver]

My best memory from IFS was being shadowed (at a considerably greater distance than 20', mind you) by a F-22. We weren't in a restricted area, and I think the guy was just out having fun but he followed us for a few minutes and broke off back towards the Tyndall area. It was awesome. Musta liked flying slow... :spin_125:

Don't tell me he was able to follow you guys in your pretty little cessna trucking along at a 100.
Or are you saying he was doing his max performance turns around you?

 

[e6bflyer]

If the guy did indeed have flight following, then I don't think he was in the wrong at all for flying in the MOA. Controllers generally provide MOA status (if active) and altitudes used if you are flying through. I don't know the whole story (was the MOA active? did the controller tell the guy? did the guy ask?) I am sorry, but MOAs should not be treated as restricted areas, as there are just way to many and they are way too huge and in the way of routes that civilians use. If you are using a MOA, then beware, the civvies are out there and they are more worried about wasting gas than inconveniencing you.
As far as the intercept, it probably wasn't neccessary nor was it very smart, as it caused an RA, resulting in lawyer freak out. I think it was just dumb. No training accomplished, nothing really gained but some ass clown trying to make a big deal over what was really a non event.

 

[kmac]

MOA arguments aside, imagine yourself in his shoes. Here you are flying with a gucci TCAS system and all of a sudden you get the RA (as e6b mentioned) pretty much saying "you're gonna die." Not only does the safe/unsafe VSI indicator start showing red, but the whole flippin' thing goes red because the other aircraft is intentionally joining up on you. It certainly doesn't provide for a warm and fuzzy. Twice I've had my TCAS go off (correctly) forcing me to immediately climb to avoid the conflict (both times a light GA aircraft passed below us, much too close for the normal "comfort zone.") So if the guy has any experience with a successful TCAS avoidance, then I'm sure he would flip out if a military aircraft decided to join up on him. I remember getting nervous the first time a Hornet joined on me. He saw us the whole time, but in the limited-visibility COD there were several seconds of frantically trying to find the traffic.

 

[TheBubba]

So 15K to 20K is a typical altitude for tactical fixed wing aircraft (read: fighter or attack)? I always thought it would be somewhere much higher like 30K or so. Forgive my civilian ignorance.

What you always thought was actually close to reality. The 15-20K we're talking about is to set up for BFM training.

 

[Single Seat]

I think the big take away here, is if you're going join up on civil aircraft (reasons aside) strangle your mode 3!

 

[jollygreen07]

Don't tell me he was able to follow you guys in your pretty little cessna trucking along at a 100.
Or are you saying he was doing his max performance turns around you?

Oh, he was turning. Shoulda thrown that in there.

It was still damned cool.

 

[Gatordev]

Oh, he was turning. Shoulda thrown that in there.

It was still damned cool.

One day I was coming back to Whiting along the beach line just past PFN in the -34. I ended up flying form w/ a F-15. We were in a WIDE combat spread and I started w/ the lead. He quickly took the lead, and I ended up being sucked and never could correct back into position. Apparently he didn't notice.

 

[Dingobat]

Oh, he was turning. Shoulda thrown that in there.

It was still damned cool.

So what your saying is that you were in a 4g inverted dive with an F-22?!

cough...Bullsh!t :icon_tong

 

[bunk22]

MOA arguments aside, imagine yourself in his shoes. Here you are flying with a gucci TCAS system and all of a sudden you get the RA (as e6b mentioned) pretty much saying "you're gonna die." Not only does the safe/unsafe VSI indicator start showing red, but the whole flippin' thing goes red because the other aircraft is intentionally joining up on you. It certainly doesn't provide for a warm and fuzzy. Twice I've had my TCAS go off (correctly) forcing me to immediately climb to avoid the conflict (both times a light GA aircraft passed below us, much too close for the normal "comfort zone.") So if the guy has any experience with a successful TCAS avoidance, then I'm sure he would flip out if a military aircraft decided to join up on him. I remember getting nervous the first time a Hornet joined on me. He saw us the whole time, but in the limited-visibility COD there were several seconds of frantically trying to find the traffic.

Wasn't that us together, the Hornets came from beneath us in a thick overcoast layer off Socal? It was even worse off Okinawa with Naha control. We couldn't avoid a storm being it went from the deck to 20,000+ and he kept saying remain VFR all the while our TCAS or NACWS, whatever it's called in the COD, went from green, yellow and red...nose dive all in a few seconds.