Phelps does it

[chupacabra]

So what should they do...swim nude?...

There could be parasitic drag issues.

All I'm saying is when Mark Spitz set his records, he did it with a full head of hair (no swim cap), no goggles, a rockin' mustache, and no NASA designed suit to make his body more hydrodynamic.

I don't think anything should be done to prevent swimmers from benefiting from technology, but a swimmer setting world records today is not necessarily a better swimmer than a former record holder because the modern swimmer has other factors aiding his performance.

 

[AJB37]

All I'm saying is when Mark Spitz set his records, he did it with a full head of hair (no swim cap), no goggles, a rockin' mustache, and no NASA designed suit to make his body more hydrodynamic.

I don't think anything should be done to prevent swimmers from benefiting from technology, but a swimmer setting world records today is not necessarily a better swimmer than a former record holder because the modern swimmer has other factors aiding his performance.

Athletes now are able to spend a lot more time training and a much larger portion of their lives training because there is a lot more money that they can earn now as opposed to the earning opportunities of Olympic athletes from previous generations.

A lot of the increase in performance comes from the suit, but a lot also comes from the ability of swimmers to continue swimming well past their college years and make a living for themselves.

 

[scoolbubba]

All I'm saying is when Mark Spitz set his records, he did it with a full head of hair (no swim cap), no goggles, a rockin' mustache, and no NASA designed suit to make his body more hydrodynamic.

I don't think anything should be done to prevent swimmers from benefiting from technology, but a swimmer setting world records today is not necessarily a better swimmer than a former record holder because the modern swimmer has other factors aiding his performance.

Spitz set his records in the 70s. Its not like they didn't know about silicon and plastic, so it was his choice to swim sans or cap goggles and with , as you call it, a "rockin' mustache." He did the same thing Phelps has done today...dominated every event he swam in, against the competition of the time. Phelps has just done more, and will probably beat the record of records.

I think in terms of pure olympian, Phelps is the better swimmer. Even without the NASA suits the guy breaks records (I've seen him swim in meets as far back as IIRC 1996-8 when i swam for one of the clubs that had meets against NBAC). He's been a monster since he was 12. The nutrition, workout routines, and cross training these guys do counts for the massive improvements over previous records. Olympians from the 70's would collapse at some of the workouts these guys put themselves through. The suits and pools give that extra .09 second boost over a 50. Maybe half a second over a 200M (granted, a lot, but these records are being smashed by 4, 5, 10 seconds as the distance increases...thats miles in a pool). The rest comes from hard work, and increases in scientific knowledge of anatomy and what makes us tick.

It's not like they are breaking spitz's world records...the records have been getting broken for years over and over again. These guys compete at the pinnacle, and push each other. The olympics just brings these records into the public eye. Unless you keep up with swimming, you don't realize that every meet that brings out world class talent will probably set a new record in at least one event, maybe many more. Doesn't cheapen the fact that they are still the fastest guy in the world...for now.

Until you've gotten up at 345 int he morning for a 430am club workout, swam an 8-12k yard workout, gone to school, then gone to your schools practice in the afternoon for a nice little warm down school practice of another 5k yards, don't knock how hard these guys work. They deserve the records.

 

[scoolbubba]

A lot of the increase in performance comes from the suit, but a lot also comes from the ability of swimmers to continue swimming well past their college years and make a living for themselves.

Very true as well.

 

[PropAddict]

Swimming is a sport where large gains are in fractions of seconds. For MP to be busting records by multiple seconds at a clip is incredible, which makes this a really interesting time to watch swimming.

Technology can help, for sure. But if you took the spiffy leggings MP wears to swim (and gave him some trunks), he would still be faster than Spits. Hell, Johhy Weismuller won Gold in freestyle and kept his head out of the water the whole time. What does that say about the level of refinement in the stroke "back in the day"?

I think it's better training, and more complete training. MP has been training with the Olympic team since age 11. Ditto for many of these other phenoms.

 

[Harrier Dude]

Comparing athletes from different eras always involve these debates and is ultimately futile. It's like wondering what watching Babe Ruth hit off of Roger Clemons would be like. Entertaining, but always unassessable.

 

[xj220]

Ditka vs a hurricane... but what if it was a hurricane Ditka?

 

[villanelle]

What improvements can be/have been made to a pool that could change swim times?

 

[xj220]

Gutters help reduce waves, especially during butterfly so a swimmer can move through smoother water. That's the only thing I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[jt71582]

I'm sure he gets a boost from those MASSIVE feet (I swear his toes are webbed). Also, I found out this week apparently he's double-jointed in both knees - I'm not a swimmer, but it seems like that would help a ton when using the dolphin, which would explain his signature "last-turn-I'm-done-toying-with-you-all" boost.

 

[scoolbubba]

There's an entire breed of sports scientists who study what chemicals go into pools and in what proportions to make the water as slick as possible. Olympics /World Championships pools are much faster than a collegiate pool because of the ability to monitor what goes in them, and what their chemical composition is. a lot more than just chlorine and water is in those pools.

New lane lines cut down on wash. Gutters, as mentioned before, to catch a lot of the wake and keep the guys from the end lanes from getting screwed any harder than they already are.

 

[AJB37]

Looks like the Chinese are downplaying Phelps and his swimming ability in their papers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/14/sports/olympics/14phelps.html

 

[Rubiks06]

Water depth and contour of the pool bottom can also play a factor in the speed of swimmers. Its the same reason waves crash in shallow water. There is more drag in shallow water. Probably not to the same extent that poor lane lines or gutter designs can affect your times but at this caliber they can.

Stroke efficiency and style is another thing. Butterfly kicking off of walls used to never be done, now if you notice everyone does it (except Dara Torres because shes old but still fast as crap). It also used to be allowed to kick underwater farther in the butter/back events but because it was so much faster and the dangers of underwater blackout they have decreased that distance significantly.

 

[scoolbubba]

Stroke efficiency and style is another thing. Butterfly kicking off of walls used to never be done, now if you notice everyone does it (except Dara Torres because shes old but still smoking hot). It also used to be allowed to kick underwater farther in the butter/back events but because it was so much faster and the dangers of underwater blackout they have decreased that distance significantly.

fixed it for you. She is america's MILF... if only she were a cougar

 

[chupacabra]

Spitz set his records in the 70s. Its not like they didn't know about silicon and plastic, so it was his choice to swim sans or cap goggles and with , as you call it, a "rockin' mustache." He did the same thing Phelps has done today...dominated every event he swam in, against the competition of the time. Phelps has just done more, and will probably beat the record of records.

I think in terms of pure olympian, Phelps is the better swimmer. Even without the NASA suits the guy breaks records (I've seen him swim in meets as far back as IIRC 1996-8 when i swam for one of the clubs that had meets against NBAC). He's been a monster since he was 12. The nutrition, workout routines, and cross training these guys do counts for the massive improvements over previous records. Olympians from the 70's would collapse at some of the workouts these guys put themselves through. The suits and pools give that extra .09 second boost over a 50. Maybe half a second over a 200M (granted, a lot, but these records are being smashed by 4, 5, 10 seconds as the distance increases...thats miles in a pool). The rest comes from hard work, and increases in scientific knowledge of anatomy and what makes us tick.

It's not like they are breaking spitz's world records...the records have been getting broken for years over and over again. These guys compete at the pinnacle, and push each other. The olympics just brings these records into the public eye. Unless you keep up with swimming, you don't realize that every meet that brings out world class talent will probably set a new record in at least one event, maybe many more. Doesn't cheapen the fact that they are still the fastest guy in the world...for now.

Until you've gotten up at 345 int he morning for a 430am club workout, swam an 8-12k yard workout, gone to school, then gone to your schools practice in the afternoon for a nice little warm down school practice of another 5k yards, don't knock how hard these guys work. They deserve the records.

Good points. I wasn't knocking the athletes of today, as it takes much more dedication to excel today than it did in the 70s, but just wondering if the sport of swimming will ever hit a plateau, with records only broken every few years, not every few months. Do you think Phelps's records (both the world records he sets in different events and the medal record) will stand for several years, or will someone better be making a run at his records at the London games?

Water depth and contour of the pool bottom can also play a factor in the speed of swimmers. Its the same reason waves crash in shallow water. There is more drag in shallow water. Probably not to the same extent that poor lane lines or gutter designs can affect your times but at this caliber they can.

Yep, the Water Cube in Beijing is 3 meters deep, a meter deeper than any previous Olympic pool.