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Can an airframe like this be fixed and put back into service or is an ejection enough to write it off?
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Stupid questions about Naval Aviation (Pt 2)
- Thread starter mo7stanley
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Can an airframe like this be fixed and put back into service or is an ejection enough to write it off?
Both the F-4 and F-14 had a command eject select handle.
In the F-4, after installation of the Mk 7 Martin Baker seat in the late 1960s (which added zero-zero capability and a rocket assist motor), there was a valve with a T-handle in the back seat. At first it was mounted high on the RIO's front instrument panel and pulled out and twisted. On later models (after AFC 506 -- the ACM optimization airframe change) it was mounted on the lower left horizontal instrument panel in the back cockpit, and twisted to select either "Single" or "Both". It was yellow with black stripes.
As HeyJoe already, stated, in the F-14 Tomcats there was a lever that selected Pilot or MCO. It was a crew decision as to where the handle was placed. New guy in the back... Single. Once the pilot had confidence... he (the pilot) would tell the RIO to put it in "Both."
When the F-4 had the old Mk 5 seats, it was everyone for themselves. When an ejection handle was pulled, that canopy and seat left the aircraft... and only that canopy/seat. After a couple of front canopy to rear seat collisions, a sequencer was added when they upgraded to the Mk 7 seat. If the front seat went (i.e., initiated the ejection)... then everyone went -- back seat first and then about .75 seconds later, the front seat. If "Both" was selected in the back seat and the RIO initiated the ejection, then everyone went... backseat first then front seat in sequence. If "Single" was selected and the RIO pulled the handle (either the face curtain or the lower ejection handle) then only the back seat went, as in the F-14 ejection seen above.
I saw one F-4 land at Miramar with no back seat and a pole sticking out of the rear cockpit.
The F-4 also had an interlock that prevented the seat from going unless the canopy was gone. You could not go through the canopy in an F-4.
In the F-4, after installation of the Mk 7 Martin Baker seat in the late 1960s (which added zero-zero capability and a rocket assist motor), there was a valve with a T-handle in the back seat. At first it was mounted high on the RIO's front instrument panel and pulled out and twisted. On later models (after AFC 506 -- the ACM optimization airframe change) it was mounted on the lower left horizontal instrument panel in the back cockpit, and twisted to select either "Single" or "Both". It was yellow with black stripes.
As HeyJoe already, stated, in the F-14 Tomcats there was a lever that selected Pilot or MCO. It was a crew decision as to where the handle was placed. New guy in the back... Single. Once the pilot had confidence... he (the pilot) would tell the RIO to put it in "Both."
When the F-4 had the old Mk 5 seats, it was everyone for themselves. When an ejection handle was pulled, that canopy and seat left the aircraft... and only that canopy/seat. After a couple of front canopy to rear seat collisions, a sequencer was added when they upgraded to the Mk 7 seat. If the front seat went (i.e., initiated the ejection)... then everyone went -- back seat first and then about .75 seconds later, the front seat. If "Both" was selected in the back seat and the RIO initiated the ejection, then everyone went... backseat first then front seat in sequence. If "Single" was selected and the RIO pulled the handle (either the face curtain or the lower ejection handle) then only the back seat went, as in the F-14 ejection seen above.
I saw one F-4 land at Miramar with no back seat and a pole sticking out of the rear cockpit.
The F-4 also had an interlock that prevented the seat from going unless the canopy was gone. You could not go through the canopy in an F-4.
That wouldn't have been a certain, "Goose Lo....." would it? An unfortunate RO who jumped out of a few?
I vaguely recall a VF-121 story where a canopy was accidentally jettisoned, the windblast or something blocked the ICS, and the F-4 RO became extremely concerned.
Without ICS contact, and with the windblast, he thought the pilot had ejected without him – which was technically impossible in the F-4.
He said he couldn't talk to the pilot, and he "couldn't see him" .... (Maybe because the pilot's ejection seat – which was still there with the pilot sitting in it – blocked his view, so he thought the pilot had ejected without him. Ergo, the RO pulled the handle and ejected.
The pilot meanwhile had no clue WTF happened, and landed back at NKX without his RO.
As I write this, I think there was another similar incident a few years later in another squadron at Miramar.
Stuff used to happen, often.
............
Actually happened to me on a flight out of Danang. Headed up toward the DMZ when the front canopy seperated from the aircraft ( I didn't touch the handle, says the pilot). VERY noisy and windy in the back without a front canopy. I couldn't see or hear the guy in front. He was hunched down to get out of the wind. I couldn't hear any thing on the radios, way to much wind noise.
Long story short, we were still flying, so I just broadcast in the blind to lead what was going on. Lead must have heard as they came over to take a look. Jettison the load and go home. Uneventful landing, but a big lemer* at the moment
*Lemer (our defination) cold shot of piss straight to the heart.
No, wasn't Goose. This was the 13 January 1975 section touch-and-go fiasco by VF-21. Planes touched wings on the said maneuver... dash-1 (the squadron CO) was literally turned 90 degrees and skidded down the east/west runway pointing north for a short while. He horsed it into the air, stalled it out, was nose-down and 135 degrees of bank at about 200 feet off the runway, recovered from that, and went into wing walk. During the gyrations, the RIO punched (valve in back in the "Single" position, so only he went). He initiated the ejection with the aircraft upright, but went out when the aircraft was in 135 degrees in left overbank. He hit the area between RWY 24R and 24L just as his chute was coming out. Never stood a chance. Dash-2 got airborne again with no problems and went around for landing. Dash-1 landed sans back-seater. OpNav 3710 now prohibits that maneuver (another "written in blood" rule).
VF-301 also had an F-4 that lost a rear canopy on takeoff from Fallon. Came back and landed, no problem.
We had a warning in the Prowler NATOPS about yanking on the piss tube, don't. Way back when a front seater wanted to relieve himself and the tube wasn't budging, so he yanked on it. The tube was wrapped around the aft canopy jettison cable and away it went.
............
. Uneventful landing, but a big lemer* at the moment
*Lemer (our defination) cold shot of piss straight to the heart.
Kind of like a "Klong". As defined by William Safire, "A rush of shit to the heart..." when you've screwed the pooch, there is nothing you can do to change it, and everyone will know about it.
Like this?
yeah I know.. probably not necessary
but why did such a terrible movie have such a great soundtrack?
iPods, yes. Everything from simply jamming some earbuds under your helmet, to an ICS interface switch (our AT's knew how to build them, and would do it for a sixpack if you bought the parts).
Not so much rock out moto tunes Iron Eagle-style, but just a way to make those really boring long flights pass more quickly.
Not so much rock out moto tunes Iron Eagle-style, but just a way to make those really boring long flights pass more quickly.
No no, why was I stupid enough to watch and thus ruin that song?
There used to be Hueys in those notes (God knows where they came from)!
There is actually a place you can plug it into the Prowler in the back, a scanner, if you have two male ends (not sure about ICAP III). A bit of the volume and quality is lost in the transfer but it goes into the ICS system so the whole crew can rock out. Makes TransLant/Pac flights a lot easier.
^Double male 1/8" patch cables run about $5.00 at Wal Mart.
I'd make the requisite joke about Prowlers, two male ends and plugging in the back, but that would be immature and beneath the dignity of our profession and a fine site such as this.
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