They allow this kind of conspiracy theory thinking in the Navy now?
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The end of NATO?
- Thread starter Waveoff
- Start date
It’s always been there. Now the Let’s go Brandon/Sleepy Joe crowd get all sad when their messiah is insulted.
So we should give Diego Garcia back to the Brits, pull everything out of Mildenhall, canx Rota and Sigonella, shutter Yokosuka?
Were you also a huge fan of BRACs?
So…yes?
Well, seeing as that wouldn’t be in our interest to do so, then no. Nice job putting words in my mouth
I appreciate you trying to put a veneer of rationality on what is really all about petty personal grievances and weird autocrat-bro worship. Their bond strengthened when they had to walk together through the Russia Hoax trial by fire.Normally, yes…but it isn’t working that way. Europe is buying Russian gas as fast as it can be pumped down the line.
EU devours Russian gas at record speed despite cutoff
Pressure to impose sanctions, a raging war and a looming Trump presidency still have not quenched the bloc’s thirst for Russian gas.www.politico.eu
Unless the Ukrainians can find a way kill Russians at a ratio of 40 to 1 they simply cannot “bleed out” the Russians - that is a mathematical fact. Equally, Ukraine was dragged into this war leaving them on their back foot since the start. They have the machines and munitions to fight, but they don’t have the organization. Because Russia keeps wasting soldiers for meters of land the Ukrainians can’t create effective, trained, and capable military formations above battalion levels. They need a ceasefire so they can catch their breath.
If you are looking for a victory it is already there. U.S. and NATO equipment, systems, and munitions have hollowed out the Russian army. There are NO menacing armored divisions facing the west. Russia’s Guards Armies are paper organizations only. With the exception of their nuclear forces, Russia is nearly defenseless against a real enemy. A consolidated Europe could, in fact, beat Russia in a conventional war without U.S. help, but (even well-supplied Ukraine) can not defeat Russia because demographics matter.
Our President actually said that.
It almost makes me wish I was an FSB agent. Soooooo much to work with. Promotions for everyone!
Perhaps it is time to ask the mods to shift this over to the Thunder Dome?
The Thunder Dome of the past doesn't exist anymore. Other than a couple of posts in the last two pages, those that are disagreeing with each other are doing it in a mostly professional way without personal attacks. As long as that continues, it's all good. Otherwise, the thread gets locked.
Sounds good.
US Senator Mike Lee, Elon Musk calls for United States to dump NATO
Senator Mike Lee and Elon Musk have called for the United States to consider dumping the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, also called the North
dailypost.ng
Ah yes, the guy who voted against the 9/11 victims fund and the world richest man want the USA out of U.N. and NATO.
Fascinating discussion yesterday between Ezra Klein at the NYT with Fareed Zakaria, whose Sunday show “GPS” on CNN is well worth watching.
I've been following Jeffrey Sachs for awhile now (currently reading one of his books). I may have posted this previously, but I have not read any probing analysis of how Ukraine has gotten squeezed by the NATO expansion to the east following the end of the Cold War. He makes some good points about how Russia views this expansion since 1994. I understand Putin's actions as a dictator and his aggressive action towards Ukraine, but does Jeffrey Sachs have any points worth discussion here? Please, no snarking, let's just discuss and educate.
The idea of “trapping Ukraine” seems off to me, because even if Russia captured and annexed the entirety of Ukraine, that’s now a newer and buffer-less border with numerous NATO countries. Either way Ukraine is cannon fodder and the answer can’t be “just let em have it”. Inaction is in itself a decision, and letting Russian snatch up whatever sovereign land it chooses is not in line with the world order or morality.
“Russia would escalate to nuclear war if necessary to prevent NATO in Ukraine.”
It seems like a really terrible idea to start a world ending war just so you have one less unfriendly country nearby. “Kick off a war to prevent a war” reads like “the art of the deal…”. Maybe don’t be a nation ran under a thugocracy by a KGB agent and people won’t be so hostile to you. No one wants war, but Russia proves again and again they are the violent drunk friend who just wants to hit people.
“Russia would escalate to nuclear war if necessary to prevent NATO in Ukraine.”
It seems like a really terrible idea to start a world ending war just so you have one less unfriendly country nearby. “Kick off a war to prevent a war” reads like “the art of the deal…”. Maybe don’t be a nation ran under a thugocracy by a KGB agent and people won’t be so hostile to you. No one wants war, but Russia proves again and again they are the violent drunk friend who just wants to hit people.
Understand your points. I want to have a discussion about the causal factors that forced Putin to take the actions he has. NATO expansion and promises made at the end of the Cold War play into this.
There are few points, pre-Biden, that aren’t mentioned in the article. The Obama administration took a pretty dismissive approach to Russia ;and Putin) thinking they could “deal with him later.” The administration sponsored the color revolutions across in several former Soviet states and got involved in Syria against a pal of Putin. Most of these things happened with little more than international grumbling because many of the color revolutions failed (Belarus, Serbia…) or deft operational planning to keep US and Russian forces from colliding in Syria. But…the Orange Revolution took hold and Putin did what he is doing. That puts us where Sachs chimes in.
I agree with the loose comparison to Vietnam (in that Biden was in the war to keep from looking weak after Afghanistan) and think there is a lot to it. But, I agree with @Waveoff that the nuclear is the known unknown.
I have been thinking about “worse case” scenarios and while I doubt Russia will be allowed to capture all of Ukraine - it would be a disaster for them. There would, without a doubt, be an insurgency and the cost to Moscow would be unsustainable. Biden prevented Ukraine from being too aggressive by demanding limits on the use of U.S. weapons, but an occupied Ukraine would e able to terrorize Moscow as often as it wished. Russia is undoubtedly the unstable partner here and while I believe the war in Ukraine should end, I also think any thoughts by the Trump team to do a “Reverse Kissinger” (or Reverse Nixon) will be immediately laid bare by a volatile Putin.